Communications Act 2003 (Maximum Penalty for Persistent Misuse of Network or Service) Order 2010

Lord Razzall Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2010 Grand Committee

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

My Lords, I welcome the order, which is hardly surprising as the previous Government initiated this legislation. We have been playing this role quite often recently. I also welcome the comments of the Minister. As she indicated, the aim is to deter, by ensuring that the cost of compliance is less than that of non-compliance, at least in most cases. Automated dialling that leads to silent and abandoned calls causes anxiety and distress. Since 2007, there have been a number of cases involving large and well known companies—I will not name them all—and a high-profile case that the Minister did name in which Ofcom imposed the maximum penalty but would have gone further.

I will make a couple of points. How will companies be informed of the increase in the penalty? We hope that publicising the change will form part of the deterrent programme. I welcome Ofcom’s monitoring review and the guidance and education procedures. However, will Ofcom require companies that use this equipment to confirm in writing that their procedures have been checked and are fully compliant?

[Lord Razzall]

My Lords, I support the order introduced by the Minister. To put this into context, one thing that nobody ever says, but which is true, is that before the automatic calling system technology was developed there was a huge number of “heavy breathers” who used to dial random numbers and hope that a woman would answer. I suspect that one reason why a lot of women are distressed by the automatic calling structure is that they remember the heavy breathers. They answer the phone thinking, “Oh my God, it will be a heavy breather”. That is a significant problem, so I support anything that can be done to stop this. If the phone rings at our house in Wiltshire before 9 am, Jane always says, “Don’t answer it, it will be an automatic call”. On the rare occasions when I do answer, it is always an automatic call. They are a pest and a plague.

I apologise to my noble friend for not having raised before the issue of automatic calling by political parties during elections. I will not attack the party of the noble Lord, Lord Young, particularly now that he has had his hip done and is in a better position to defend himself. However, we all remember that during the 2005 election people were getting calls at 3 am from John Prescott, who has since become a Member of this House. I wonder whether in this context—this touches on the ambits of the Electoral Commission and of the Information Commissioner, who tends to take his predecessor’s view that his remit does not extend to this—since it looks as though we are now the best part of five years away from a general election, the Government could look at automatic calling.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

If I may—

[Lord Razzall]

I cannot sit down because my knees are bad. I apologise for staying standing; imagine that I am sitting.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

I cannot resist saying that these were not silent and abandoned calls, but maybe in this instance the recipients wished that they had been.

[Lord Razzall]

I realise that this point is not an immediate priority because it does not look as though we are going to have a general election until 2015, but perhaps the Government could take on board that the extent to which these automatic calling systems need to be brought under control for elections is an area that could be looked at. I support the order.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Wilcox]

I thank the noble Lord. I would like to point this out to the Information Commissioner and see if he cannot study this and come up with some better answers.

My noble friend Lord Razzall asked two questions. He reminded us all about the calls from “heavy breathers” before this technology was developed. As a woman picking up a telephone, in the days before I went ex-directory, I have heard a heavy breather on the other end.

[Lord Razzall]

I’m not surprised.

[Baroness Wilcox]

Thank you. It is a worry, though—that awful pause when there is no voice on the other end of the phone. I think particularly of women on their own at home during the day, as well as older women who may be living alone and feeling very exposed. I have a fellow feeling for that.

The noble Lord moved on to political parties. I am interested to see what answer we can even give at this stage about the use of this technology by political parties in elections. We note the point and we will raise this, too, with the Information Commissioner. This is his area, and I am sure that he will be happy to have these things raised.

These have been valuable points and we are going to take them away with us. On that basis, I commend the order to the Committee.