Children and Families Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Lord Low of Dalston

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, the amendment is in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. I shall speak also to Amendment 114, which is also in our two names and is in similar terms to Amendment 112 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones.

The amendments are about introducing a degree of accountability, consistency and quality control into the local offer. These ideas have already been broached but the amendments seek to take the discussion further and perhaps anchor it even more firmly. I imagine that I am not alone in having received extensive briefings from concerned parents, practitioners and policy experts from organisations such as the Special Educational Consortium emphasising the importance of accountability in the new system.

The local offer will provide a great deal of information for children, young people and their families to enable them to know what is available and help them to exercise choice, but we cannot expect those the information is intended to benefit effectively to police the system by assuring its quality and by providing the necessary checks that like is being compared with like, and so on. Of course local offers will not all be the same. I understand that the Minister will not want to overprescribe the form and content of local offers, thus removing the scope for innovative development and responsiveness at the local level.

However, in the introduction of new systems such as this, it would be rash not to build any element of accountability or quality control into the process. The amendment therefore seeks to have both Ofsted and the Care Quality Commission involved in reviewing local offers to make sure that they provide an accurate picture of the services available to young people and their families so that they have access to accurate and quality information. This would ensure that the services provided by all providers were described and assessed on a comparable basis. Under current arrangements there is no parity between providers, which all have different audit and inspection arrangements, thereby making it difficult for young people and their families to make like-for-like comparisons of services included in the local offer.

I shall not say any more about this but leave it to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, to expand on the questions of accountability and inspection from all his vast experience of these matters, should he wish to do so. I am sure the Committee will be greatly benefitted if he does.

Amendment 114 is in similar terms to Amendment 112 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones. The amendments seek to establish a minimum level of provision that local offers should contain. This should not be seen as overprescriptive but simply as providing a measure of reassurance that local offers will be, as I said in relation to Amendments 101 and 102, robust, accessible and effective, and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said, consistent. Accountability must be at the heart of these reforms and these characteristics are a precondition of accountability. I hope the Minister will agree that local offers can still be responsive to local needs while meeting minimum standards and exhibiting the qualities of robustness, accessibility, effectiveness and consistency.

It is noteworthy that the Education Committee in another place, in its pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill, took the view that the local offer needed strengthening. It said:

“The weight of evidence received by our Committee clearly supported minimum standards and we recommend that the Pathfinders be used to inform what should constitute minimum standards for Local Offers, particularly to address the provision that will need to be made available in schools to support pupils with low to moderate SEN without EHCPs. We also recommend the establishment of a national framework for Local Offers to ensure consistency, together with accountability measures by which they can be evaluated”.

It seems that that committee is very much on the same page as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, and me here.

In summary, these amendments are about ensuring two things: first, not only that parents and their children have access to information about the services available to them but also that there is a quality assurance mechanism in place that gives them a means of holding the local authority to account; and, secondly, that the local offer has some guaranteed substance that families can rely on. I beg to move.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I take up the offer made by my noble friend Lord Low to say a little a bit about the quality assurance I have in mind. Noble Lords may remember two extremely good safeguarding reports produced by the joint inspectorates involved in education, health and the criminal justice system, one in 1999 and the other in 2003. Those came about in the balmy days before the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr Gordon Brown, axed what had been the Social Services Inspectorate and became the Commission for Social Care Inspection. The role of social care responsibility for children was then taken on by Ofsted and that of adult social care by the Care Quality Commission, which was instigated by the reforms that had to follow the axing of the Social Services Inspectorate. I have always regretted strongly that although this House was able to preserve Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons we were unable to preserve the Social Services Inspectorate. Frankly, we have been reaping the wind ever since.

My feeling about what we are talking about here is that we need something akin to the inspections for the safeguarding of children carried out by the joint inspectorates. They were led by someone with overall responsibility but able to call on the quality assurance addition of the inspectors of particular elements of the system. In this case, we have healthcare and education but also other things including the local offer, how that is made and so on. That is why I laid this false trail, as it were, to the Children’s Commissioner. I suggest to the Minister that in thinking about the quality of what we are proposing—and what the Government are very definitely interested in introducing—the assurance on that is carried out by those best able to do it working together, rather than giving it to any one person, because there are so many aspects to it. Quality assurance is absolutely essential and must be objective and consistent in every part of the country where local offers are handled.

Health and Social Care Bill

Debate between Lord Ramsbotham and Lord Low of Dalston

Monday 19th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I rise to speak to my amendment, Amendment 330C, which relates to the fact that offender health is a public health—particularly prison health—issue. Since almost every prisoner will be released, their mental and physical state when they are is therefore a matter of public interest. I wish to speak to something related to imprisonment, rather than to imprisonment itself. There are two other activities associated with this part of the Bill which also affect activities of other ministries, the Ministry of Justice and of course the Home Office, to which I would like to draw attention.

As we all know, prisons are wells of psychiatric morbidity. At one end of the spectrum, some 500 prisoners have to be transferred to special hospitals each year. At the other end, some 70 per cent are suffering from at least two personality disorders which are bound to impact upon their behaviour. Prisons are also the unfortunate recipients of people who were in asylums, until these were abolished. To prevent that happening the previous Government initiated a report, conducted by the noble Lord, Lord Bradley, on diverting people with mental health problems away from prison. This was a very, very comprehensive report, with recommendations which affected the courts and the police in particular. This Government, as I understand, have accepted the recommendations and are working towards them. However, they of course depend on there being proper mental health assessment and treatment available at the point where a person comes into contact with the criminal justice system. This is usually at a police station, to start with, and then at a court. I have been to see one of the pilot schemes in Brighton, where an extremely able psychiatric nurse in the court was able to divert people away from imprisonment, not least because they had taken enormous trouble to ensure that the necessary support for people with mental health problems was available from that moment on. Without that support being available, the scheme becomes worthless. However, before that, the first time that people come into contact with the system is in police stations. What worries me about progress in the future is that unless there is a police representative on health and well-being boards able to represent the needs of the people who make those assessments at the police station, the diversion scheme could fail at its start. The purpose of my amendment, therefore, is to ask the Minister to consider very seriously the addition of a police representative on health and well-being boards, to make certain that the needs of police stations are represented at source, in every area of the country where diversion schemes will start.

I say this because when I started inspecting prisons, I discovered that prisons, alone in this country, were not part of the National Health Service. Indeed, they did not become part of the National Health Service until 2003. The result of that was that the needs of people from prisons were not built into National Health Service estimates, and so they were always competing for other requirements. To avoid that error being repeated, I therefore believe that it is essential to have police representation at the place where planning is carried out.

My second area is to do with probation. With regard to the plans—“Breaking the Cycle”, the rehabilitation revolution and all the noise that has come from the Ministry of Justice about reducing the prison population and providing alternatives to custody—most of that comes down to the probation service. There is absolutely no reason why the probation service should not carry out exactly the same programme as happens in prisons; that is, people are assessed, programmes are made and conducted, and then the person is transitioned into the community. There is no reason why the assessing, the programming and the supervision of mental and physical health treatment should not happen to somebody on probation in exactly the same way as it happens in prison. However, the probation service needs help and guidance in the provision of that assessment and programming. That is why I am asking the Minister to consider that a representative of the probation service should be included on the health and well-being board, in order to ensure that its needs are included in the plans, so that the probation service can make the delivery of community sentences more effective and more acceptable in the public eye, and is therefore able to contribute to what the Secretary of State for Justice is seeking; namely, a reduction in the prison population.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, I add my voice very briefly to those of the noble Baronesses, Lady Wilkins and Lady Finlay, in support of Amendment 330A, which provides that health and well-being boards should include a representative of education providers in the area. The noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, has spoken to the amendment very fully and ably; however, perhaps I can underline the point to which she has already alluded. When we considered the Education Bill in Grand Committee earlier in the year, there was great concern that the Government wished to remove the duty on schools which had only recently been laid on them, to co-operate with other services in pursuing the welfare of children. We were particularly concerned about this at the time of the riots, when people were emphasising the role that schools had to play in combating exclusion and disaffection among children. I am glad to say that the Government took the force of our point and withdrew the proposal to remove this duty from schools. I hope that the Minister will agree that a joined-up approach would suggest—as the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, has argued—that there should be a reciprocal duty on health and well-being boards, at least to include a representative of education providers on the board.