Syria: UK Military Action
Lord Ramsbotham Excerpts(8 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Ramsbotham (CB)
My Lords, I was very glad to note that the Motion excluded two words that were included in the Motion before the other place—“specifically airstrikes”. Like the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, and many other noble Lords, I do not believe that bombing alone will defeat Daesh. With that long-held view in mind, I admit that I was not very pleased when I woke up this morning to find that after 41 years in the Army, many spent fighting terrorism, I had been branded as a “terrorist sympathiser” by none other than our Prime Minister.
Some noble Lords may recall the name of Robert Thompson, the British civil servant who was seconded to the Malayan Government, whose fortified canton concept was the battle-winning factor that defeated the Communist insurgency in that country in the 1950s. When the Americans escalated their operations in Vietnam, President Kennedy asked his advice. What he said was very interesting. It led to a delta project but, in particular, Thompson emphasised to Kennedy that in this sort of warfare you needed boots and brains. He added, “Don’t bomb villages”. He said that because of the vital importance of the military winning and retaining the hearts and minds of the population it was striving to support.
As we know, his advice was not followed but I could not help thinking about it during the recent hysteria over whether or not the RAF should deploy the Brimstone precision weapon in Syria. This appeared to be much more party politics than military appreciation of the situation. I think a lot of the factors were in danger of being missed.
To return to Thompson, like the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, and others, I was very concerned that the first sentence of the Motion before the other place notes that,
“ISIL poses a direct threat to the United Kingdom”,
and the 11th sentence says that,
“the Government will not deploy UK troops in ground combat”.
In other words, we are ignoring that boots in fact represent much more than just being on the ground. There are many other aspects of military support which may be requested of us.
At the same time, I have been encouraged by the Motion’s fourth sentence, which,
“notes that military action against ISIL is only one component of a broader strategy to bring peace and stability to Syria”.
I again question, why only Syria? If we are fighting against ISIL and ISIL represents a threat to many other countries, surely the aim should be a coalition against ISIL. If you do that in Syria, you have to include President Assad—whether or not he is going to be part of the longer-term solution—and the 70,000 people who appeared suddenly last week in the Prime Minister’s Statement. Surely the sensible thing to do is to create a coalition of all those who are affected by ISIL, and deploy the diplomatic, political, economic, military, moral and other aspects against it everywhere, rather than just limiting ourselves to an operation in Syria.
Chagos Islands
Lord Ramsbotham Excerpts(9 years ago)
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The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a very good point, particularly relating to the Chagossian communities in Crawley and Manchester. Of course, they are going to want a certain lifestyle if they return to those islands. I know that the KPMG report looked at the numbers that could be employed by the authorities on Diego Garcia, but I can tell the House that, until we make a final examination of the results of this consultation, nothing can be agreed.
Lord Ramsbotham (CB)
My Lords, as a member of the All-Party Group on the Chagos Islands, I ask the Minister to be more precise about the word “soon”. This is a word that has been used by successive Governments for the past eight years, to my certain knowledge. Frankly, we would like some more precision.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, somebody whispered in my ear, “Very soon”. I and other noble Lords who have been Members of this House for a very long time have used the term “soon”, but I can assure the noble Lord that it will be soon.
Iraq
Lord Ramsbotham Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Ramsbotham (CB)
My Lords, 100 years ago those who responded to the appeal for help from Belgium did so quite rightly but embarked this country on a future with unknown global consequences. I feel that today, in quite rightly responding to the request from Iraq, the Government are again launching the country towards more or less unknown global consequences. But we can do something to condition those. I am very glad that the phrase “keeping your eyes open” has been used by so many people in their distinguished contributions to this debate. I particularly single out my noble friend Lord Williams of Baglan for his applause for the Prime Minister’s meeting with the Iranian President.
Thinking around my general agreement with what is being proposed, I would just like to share two observations and one plea. I am one of those—as a soldier, your Lordships would expect me to be—who are concerned about the automatic suggestion that air power is the answer to all these things. Air power is a means and not an end. We do not think of using air power, for example, to counter ISIL in England. We think of all the other organisations. I regret the use of the phrase “boots on the ground” because “boots” implies military boots. In fact, as the most reverend Primate mentioned, we need not just military but also ideological, diplomatic, educational, social, humanitarian and other boots on the ground if we are to counter anything like ISIS or ISIL or whatever it is called. In relation to where this combat is being fought, those who abolished the Iraqi army and police must be regretting their decision.
Secondly, like the noble Lord, Lord Reid, I appeal for a grand strategy. I hope that the Government will produce one in time to condition next year’s strategic defence review, which must include the ability of our Armed Forces to continue not only whatever campaign is mounted against ISIL but also whatever is intended in the future if we are again to come to the help of our friends who ask for help.
My one plea relates to a body which I was very privileged to be invited to join by Kofi Annan, then the Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping, in 1993. Following the coalition in the first Iraq war, which consisted of Egypt, Syria, Pakistan and the mujaheddin from Afghanistan, among 51 others, he assembled a group of six force commanders from recent United Nations operations and an American general. We were asked to write down what improvements could be made to the management of Chapter VII peacekeeping operations under United Nations auspices. The first and obvious thing was that there must be a nominated force commander. Without a force commander who can determine such things as what intelligence is required, what forces are required, what programme of operations should be conducted, relationships with non-governmental organisations and so on, you do not get anywhere. While people talk about a coalition—I absolutely applaud the idea of that, particularly if it contains Arab countries—you cannot launch a military coalition to do anything like that without putting someone very firmly in its command.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Hurd, in a very perceptive speech, contrasted today’s debate with the one that we had in August last year, when both he and I, and almost every other Member of your Lordships’ House, voiced grave concern at the prospect of going into Syria without a clearly defined objective or outcome. Today is very different. It is a sobering thought, incidentally, that had we decided differently last year, we might have boosted these wretched ISIL people into a position of even greater power in Syria.
We are now setting our hands to an extraordinary task. In the words of that great prayer by Sir Walter Raleigh, we have to see this thing “until it be throughly finished”. This is not a case of sending just a few sorties; we are in for the long haul. Although I risk the rebuke of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, we will need boots on the ground, be they Arab boots or other military boots—
Lord Cormack
No, I cannot give way in this short debate. We will need boots on the ground—military boots and, as the noble Lord rightly pointed out, other boots.
Briefly, if we are to win the hearts and minds of people in the Middle East, those who are suffering desperate privation and those who will be bereaved or maimed as a result of air strikes—that is bound to happen—we must have great emphasis on humanitarian aid. I point up a little contrast. Yesterday, I stood on the East Green of Lincoln Cathedral, where there was a dedication of a plot that, next year, is to bring forth a wonderful garden of bulbs to commemorate Operation Manna. At the end of the Second World War, the people of Holland were in desperate plight. They were starving. Queen Wilhelmina said, “We shall merely be liberating corpses if something is not done”. Although we had to negotiate with the Germans—the war was still on—so that the low-flying aircraft were not shot down, the relief supplies were delivered and the people survived. Yesterday, in a very moving ceremony, we had the Netherlands ambassador paying tribute to the Germans in the presence of their military attaché, saying, “Even though then we were at war, those with whom we had nothing in common and who had inflicted terrible disaster upon us, at that particular point, held back”.
I make that comment and give that illustration merely to point up a moral and to adorn a tale. I hold no brief for the Assad regime—I do not think that there can be any Member of your Lordships’ House who does —but, without repeating the Arab proverb cited by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, all I would say is that we must have unrestrained conflict against these barbarians if we are to bring them to heel and we must ensure that, as the wasteland is liberated, we help those who seek to survive on it as much as we conceivably can.
House of Lords: Working Practices
Lord Ramsbotham Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Lord Ramsbotham
My Lords, like other noble Lords, I thank and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Filkin, on obtaining this important debate. I also thank Nicola Newson for her outstanding Library report.
I shall mention two experiences this year and draw observations from them. The first echoes what the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, said about the fate of legislation that has gone from this House to the other. I refer to the poorly drafted Legal Aid, Sentencing and Rehabilitation of Offenders Bill, which left the Ministry of Justice under that title and emerged from No. 10 into this House as the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. We spent hours and hours improving that Act, using the skill and expertise of this House, including that of people such as my noble and learned friend Lord Woolf. We sent a string of amendments down to the other place, which almost invariably were rejected on the ground that money was involved. If the other House had paid proper attention and scrutinised the amendments, it would have discovered that they did not involve spending money but saving money. Because the other House did not give them proper consideration, I felt that the skills and experience of this House were being misused by Parliament. Therefore, my first hope is that some way will be found of putting that right, so that the skills and expertise really can be put to better use.
My second hope relates to an inquiry that I am currently conducting into the death, under restraint, of a deportee in an aircraft at Heathrow when he was under forced removal from this country. During the course of this inquiry, I have discovered a vast number of practices in the UK Border Agency that could be put right to prevent this sort of thing. Earlier this year the Home Affairs Select Committee in the other place conducted an inquiry into the governance of enforced removals, and I discovered that none of the things that we have found that could have been put right were included in its report. I have been trying now to find some way of getting the committee to accept the recommendations of my inquiry that refer to the use of statutory bodies to help the UK Border Agency. It struck me that one of the most successful committees in this House is the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which was formed in 2000 by the Liaison Committee. I wonder whether, to make better use of the skills and expertise in this House, it is not worth examining whether joint committees on other subjects such as justice should be created, bearing in mind all the expertise that is here. I put that forward as a consideration for the Leader of the House to take on.
Public Disorder: Policing
Lord Ramsbotham Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, my noble friend has made a good suggestion. Obviously, with modern technology and communications it is sometimes easier to let Peers know what is happening on the ground but sometimes these things flare up very quickly. In a way, that is part of the point of the tactics that the demonstrators use. It is not always possible to predict exactly when things will happen. Once noble Lords are inside the House, the Annunciator very clearly lets Peers and other users of this House know which Gates are open and which are closed. However, it is a useful suggestion that my noble friend makes.
Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has made a good point. I do not like the word “kettling” either. I am not entirely certain either where it came from or exactly what it means but the word that the police and the Government use is “containment”. It is a tried-and-tested method of trying to contain those who are indulging in public disorder and disobedience. Part of the process is designed to allow people to cool off and, as I said in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, there was an exit to encourage those who wished to leave peacefully to do so. Yet it is often difficult to anticipate what is happening on the ground. The police have a difficult job to do and various means at their disposal to try to deal with the crowd as effectively as possible. Sometimes it does not go according to plan.