Corporate Governance

Debate between Lord Puttnam and Lord Henley

Tuesday 29th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

I take it that my noble friend is referring to the problem relating to payments made by big companies to their suppliers down the line. He is right to draw attention to this issue and it is certainly something that I would want to pass on to my right honourable friend because, as he says, it can be a cause of major concern for those in the supply chain if they are not being paid in good time. As I say, I will pass that on.

[Lord Puttnam (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister said that the Government were looking for suggestions. As someone who has been the chair of the remuneration committee of a number of public companies, let me say that it is a very lonely place to be. A great deal could be done by the Government to align more clearly and unambiguously the responsibilities of the remuneration committee with the interests of shareholders. It may look simple—but, believe me, if you are in the hot seat trying to deal with these situations, it can be very difficult indeed. It would be very helpful to be able to rely on statute so that the pressures that need to be brought to bear could be brought to bear.

[Lord Henley]

I think that the noble Lord has it absolutely right when he says that being the chair of the remuneration committee can be a lonely place to be. That is something which all those in business, and the rest of the board, ought to take into account when listening to the chair of that committee.

Protection of Freedoms Bill

Debate between Lord Puttnam and Lord Henley

Wednesday 15th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Puttnam]

My Lords, I will not delay the House for more than a moment. This is the first opportunity that I have had to speak during the passage of the Bill, and I want to add a factual point that may be of use in supporting the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McColl.

I had the honour of succeeding the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, as president of UNICEF. In that capacity I spent seven years travelling to all parts of the world, looking at the issue of child trafficking, and was forced to witness things that would have beggared the imagination of Charles Dickens. One important point kept coming back: when I was moved at times to begin to lecture areas of the world where the situation was particularly bad, they always responded, quite correctly, by saying, “Look at your own situation”. The situation in the UK is actually very poor, and it ill behoves us to tell the rest of the world what it should be doing about child trafficking until we can be sure that our own record is as close to immaculate as legislation can make it. I was frequently extremely embarrassed by being lectured back about the UK’s record on child trafficking in places where I had thought that we had the moral high ground. We lost the moral high ground a number of years ago.

I harangued my own Government any number of times on this issue and eventually we got a signature to the UN convention, but the situation needs improvement, and quickly. We have very little to be proud of, and I was hoping that the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord McColl, would go a long way towards allowing us to begin to tell the rest of the world how to put their house in order.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I hope that the House will now allow me to respond to the long debate that we have had on this subject. There are a few points that I want to make.

The noble Baroness, Lady Massey, was rather suspicious that I might be trying to kick this into the long grass—she put that suggestion forward. I assure her that I have some experience of kicking things into the long grass, but that works only when all parties agree that something should go into the long grass and stay there. If I may continue with the analogy, it was her noble friend Lady Royall who asked that I keep her informed of progress while giving me the assurance that my noble friend Lord McColl would be dogged in his pursuit of me to ensure that things progressed. When someone like my noble friend is dogged in his pursuit, there is no grass long enough for these matters. This issue will not go into the long grass, as I said; I want this to go to the Children’s Commissioner for her to give her views and come forward with practical ideas.

On that point, I would like to come back to my noble friend Lady Hamwee, who herself was rather suspicious when I used the expression “practical arrangements”. I have no shame whatever in using those words because they are exactly what we want. We want to ensure that we are making progress in this area, rather than merely passing amendments so that we feel good about passing amendments.

I do not want to go into the amendment of my noble friend Lord McColl at this stage because I do not think it quite achieves what it sets out to do and there might be better ways of doing it. I repeat what I said to him earlier today in a private conversation: we have made some progress in this area. Noble Lords have been quoting the figure of some 32 per cent of children still being lost, but we have had considerable progress over the past few years. The 32 per cent figure was an average over the past four or five years, but actually it has dropped from a quite horrifying 55 per cent to 18 per cent, which is an equally horrifying figure but that at least is progress in the right direction. I pay tribute to some local authorities, and there are not many good ones, that have been performing their duties very well. I also pay tribute, as did my noble friend Lord Attlee in the recent debate moved by the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, to the work of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, which I visited recently. Progress is being made in this area and we should not think that primary legislation or whatever—there will be opportunities for both primary and secondary legislation—is necessarily the only solution.

At this stage I would like to say that we have made progress, I have listened to everything that has been said and the Children’s Commissioner will take note of all that has been said in this debate. I look forward to progress and to keeping the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, informed about it. I will also look over my shoulder for the dogged pursuit of my noble friend Lord McColl, who will see to it that I do my utmost to ensure that progress is made in this respect. I hope that with those assurances my noble friend will feel able to withdraw his amendment.