Kosovo and the Western Balkans Region

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one thing is very clear in Kosovo and, as my noble friend said, in Bosnia-Herzegovina. When you visit on the ground, as I did last year in Sarajevo, you can feel and see the growing assertiveness of Russian influence in these key areas, which is very much in evidence. While we call for Russia to respect the sovereignty of these key nations, it is evident that those leading some of the Serb causes, such as Mr Dodik in the so-called Republika Srpska, are becoming ever more assertive. That is why the United Kingdom took steps to sanction such individuals.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the replenishment of KFOR is regrettably necessary, and I welcome the fact that the UK has announced that it is going to replenish the 80 personnel there. I commend the Minister on his commitment to peacekeeping forces, as demonstrated just before Recess at the event where he, I and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, met peacekeepers of the UK contributions. Just two years ago, the contribution from the UK was over 400 personnel but, according to the UN Association, the UK is now 50th in the world for our contribution to global peacekeeping forces. Will he please tell his colleagues in the MoD that now is the time to increase the number of UK personnel able to be deployed for peacekeeping forces around the world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we take considered decisions on the deployment of UK forces for international missions in terms of our support for both NATO and the United Nations. I am proud of the fact that we have consistently been strong supporters of troop-contributing countries in the UN system—we are one of the largest contributors. We have troops who serve through various UN mandates as well. We look at the particular mandate to see what is required. The other thing to note is the strong technical and training support that the MoD and UK troops provide to many nations across the world, which is very much valued.

Overseas Territories: Illegal Immigration

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 27th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Of course, Haiti is not an overseas territory, but it has a big impact on neighbouring overseas territories, as we have been discussing. We are obviously very concerned. We used our platform in the UN Security Council to support the UN sanctions back in October. We continue to engage in Security Council discussions, including considering Haitian requests for security assistance, and we want stability and security as soon as possible in Haiti. We are supporting it through contributions to the UN and other international agencies that have a strong presence on the ground, including the World Bank, and we are working with the UN office in Haiti and the international community to support a peaceful, democratic and Haitian-led solution for the Haitian people.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that the OTs operate their own visa regime, which is separate from that of the United Kingdom. Given the violence and climate crises in that near neighbourhood, there are no safe and legal routes for seeking asylum. Are the OTs fully covered by the proposals in the Government’s Illegal Migration Bill, which means that they will now have to detain and then remove to Rwanda any of those individuals? What are the mechanisms for providing support for detention facilities within the OTs and supporting the cost of flights to Rwanda that the Government are now going to insist the OTs carry out? What was their response? I assume the Government and FCDO consulted them. What was the response to the consultation?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Different OTs have different challenges and problems. We began the conversation about TCI, where the migration problem is on a scale that is incomparable. If it was translated into UK conditions, it would be like 4 million or 5 million people crossing the channel every year, and clearly that is a major problem for a small island with a small population. What we are helping to do in TCI is helping the country return those refugees to Haiti where possible. Similarly, we have a problem in Cayman, where large numbers of people are fleeing from Cuba. The answer there is to return people wherever possible to Cuba. The only issue that seems to be of interest to Parliament at the moment relates to the British Indian Ocean Territory, where we have a particular problem with refugees, mostly from Sri Lanka, who are inhabiting an area that is effectively uninhabitable. There we have particular issues and it is in those circumstances where the Rwanda option may be the best one.

Sudan

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by paying tribute to the bravery and professionalism of our Armed Forces, who have been involved in the operation, first, to evacuate our British diplomats and, now, to start to evacuate British citizens from Sudan. In supporting our nationals in escaping the violence, we should remember that this conflict is not of the Sudanese people’s making. The responsibility for it lies squarely with a few generals, who are putting personal interests and ambition above the lives of fellow citizens. In those circumstances, it is important that the international community, including our partners, sends a clear and united message that the generals cannot secure any future through the continuation of violence. They need to understand the importance of stopping—and stopping now.

I have a number of questions for the Minister. I appreciate that, tomorrow, there will be an update report presented to the other place, and I hope that next week we will have an opportunity to review that. In the meantime, I ask what support is being offered to the African Union mediators—has the AU made any specific requests to us? How are UN efforts towards a ceasefire being collated and joined up so as to facilitate progress on the African Union IGAD plan for mediation? It is vital that we focus on that.

There are issues around the numbers evacuated, the numbers remaining and the timescales for the remainder of evacuation flights. In particular, is there a time when the Government expect that control over Wadi Seidna airbase will end? Certainly, working with other partners is their responsibility. Will the responsibility be transferred to other nations that seek to evacuate their own citizens? If the ceasefire deteriorates, how will we prevent people being left behind who are so desperate to escape?

After reading the reports on the ground and listening to the radio, it would be good to hear from the Minister what we are able to do to support the British nationals who remain there at the moment. Are there any reports of British nationals being attacked on their way to the airport following the escape routes recommended to the FCDO? What is the most up-to-date number of those registered with the FCDO as British nationals and dependents? We heard in the Statement originally that the minimum number was 2,000 but, from my informal discussions with the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, it looks as if the number could be more than 4,000. At the rate so far of eight flights with 75 people per flight —so 600 people per day—it would take two more full days to get 2,000 out. If the number is 4,000, it means a much more extended period.

Does the department recognise that any errors have been made in its communication over the last few days? We have seen reports of people hearing the message with no concrete plan for further evacuations on Monday and then making their own plans for the dangerous and very lengthy journeys to Port Sudan or the Egyptian border. It seems now that, with the clear plan for flights, that might be resolved, but it would be good to hear the Minister’s assessment.

There have been reports in the media of sexual violence. What steps are we taking to support survivors and, in particular, to support evidence gathering by specialists to make sure that the accountability that is so necessary is maintained? We are also having to think about the humanitarian response and what will be possible. Water, food and all the basic essentials for the people of Sudan are being affected—and they were badly affected before. This will add huge pressure. I hope that we are thinking about how, working with our partners, we can address this.

I conclude with a couple of points about external players’ involvement in the conflict. As I mentioned in a previous debate on this, we have had reports of the Wagner brigade being involved in facilitating RSF activities, which have been increasing. When I raised this matter before, I asked what we were doing to step up investigations into corrupt and illegal activity around arms smuggling and, particularly, illicit finance resulting from gold mining, which may well have fuelled the conflict and helped with the supply of arms. Are the Government actively considering any potential use of sanctions, perhaps on mid-level figures linked to atrocities or illegal activity in the run-up to the conflict? The UK’s role as a penholder makes our engagement in working with others on this question very important. I appreciate that there will be updates tomorrow, and I hope we can have further discussions when we return next week.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I reiterate my entry in the register of interests and declare my interest, in having visited Sudan on a number of occasions, most recently during the Easter Recess and in March, when I met Generals Burhan and Hemedti separately. I thank officials and the UK special envoy to Sudan and South Sudan for being open to engaging with me and responding in a personal way. I also commend the officials and staff, as well as our military and Armed Forces, who have worked very hard to ensure the safety of British nationals, as well as of our diplomatic staff, who are now re-establishing diplomatic channels from outside Sudan.

What is the Government’s estimate of the capacity of the current means by which we are evacuating British nationals? Are we both sharing other countries’ resources and co-ordinating that? There has been a number of differing figures from partnering countries as to how many nationals have been evacuated for seeking refuge. How are we co-ordinating that number? Having been to Sudan on a number of occasions, and having asked our embassy during previous visits how many nationals and joint nationals there are in Sudan, I understand the complexity. It has been, in a way, a positive in the past that we have never counted people in and out. I have a degree of understanding of the complexity of the operations, but what is the estimate, and for how long do we anticipate the ability to have evacuations? I will return to the need for expanding the 72-hour temporary cessation of hostilities to a longer term in a moment.

Will the Minister provide the House with an update on British Council staff? British Council staff had to shelter in place within the British Council offices. Are all British Council staff accounted for? What is the status of local Sudanese staff who worked in our embassy and in the British Council? What is the status of the local staff who supported the work of the UK Government there, who also require our support and assistance? What is the Minister’s assessment of where they are?

The need to extend the 72-hour cessation is now of paramount importance. I endorse the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, with regards to IGAD and those working for it. I know the IGAD representative, the former Foreign Minister of Somaliland, who had been doing good work there. I believe that there is an opportunity to try to refocus some of the work, if we can secure a further humanitarian window. What is now the Government’s primary aim with regards to securing the extension of the 72 hours which has been brokered by the United States and the Saudis? I believe it is now vital that the 72 hours becomes a further 72 hours, and that we focus not only on bringing people out but on getting humanitarian assistance in. There is little point in sending empty planes to Sudan to bring out foreign nationals if we have an opportunity to get medical assistance in. That means that any extension of the ceasefire should be monitorable, and that there should be warnings that there is no impunity for those who would break such a humanitarian corridor, should it be established.

I believe very strongly that such an extension would aid the worry for British nationals; if there is no reliable safe route to the area from which they might be evacuated, they have to take their own risk to get there. What is the UK doing with our partners to ensure a whole network of safe routes that can become reliable and trustworthy? There is real fear from people in Omdurman and Khartoum who have contacted me just today that the two combating forces are reassessing their strength and waiting until the end of a humanitarian window in order to recommence work. We must prevent this happening. If the Minister can update us on initiatives for that, I would be very grateful.

Can the Minister say what advice and support we are providing to the immediate relatives of British nationals, as well as to those who have sought access to the UK through existing visa applications? Are we working with the UN on humanitarian papers and access for those categories of people?

What is the Government’s advice to those in the UK, both from the diaspora community and elsewhere, who wish to donate or provide medicine or other equipment? How can they do that and get it to the people who need it? Equally, we need to ensure that the warring parties cannot replenish their munitions and supplies, so what work are we doing with our international partners to ensure that those forces, whether governmental or non-governmental, that have offered assistance for replenishment of arms are warned in the strongest possible terms that they may be contributing to war crimes?

Finally, I am travelling to Nairobi tomorrow, where I will engage with former Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok to try to scope where there may be an opportunity for some form of civilian dialogue that can offer reassurance or hope for the people of Sudan that, in the medium and long term, there will be a civilian and then democratic Administration in that country. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that this is not the Sudanese people’s war, nor their fault. Some hope should be provided at this time of great horror. I am grateful for the Government’s support for that initiative. If the Minister can respond to my other points, it would provide some reassurance to people to whom we owe a great debt of support.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for this opportunity to respond to questions and provide an update on the increasingly troubling situation in Sudan.

Ten days ago, fierce fighting broke out in Khartoum. It has since spread to Omdurman, Darfur and other Sudanese cities. As noble Lords will know, a violent power struggle is ongoing between the Sudanese army and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces. The UK unequivocally condemns that violence and welcomes the 72-hour ceasefire agreed on Monday. Like the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and everyone else in this Chamber, we would welcome an extension of it, but it would be risky to base our plans on the assumption that those discussions would succeed. We call on the Sudanese armed forces and the Rapid Support Forces to ensure that this ceasefire holds—the previous one did not.

The situation is grave. More than 427 people have been killed, including five aid workers, and over 3,700 people have been injured. Before this violence began, the humanitarian situation in Sudan was already deteriorating. We now estimate that approximately 15.6 million people—a third of the Sudanese population —are in need of humanitarian assistance. These numbers, I am sorry to say, will continue to rise.

Given the rapidly deteriorating security situation, the Government took the difficult decision to evacuate all British embassy staff and their dependants to fulfil our duty as their employer to protect our staff. This highly complex operation was completed on Sunday. It involved more than 1,200 personnel from 16 Air Assault Brigade, the Royal Marines and the RAF. I am sure noble Lords will join me, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, did earlier, in commending the brilliant work of our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and the bravery of our service men and women in completing the operation successfully, in enormously complex and dangerous circumstances. I also pay tribute to our international partners for their ongoing co-operation in aligning our rescue responses and to the crisis centre in the FCDO, where more than 200 officials are working tirelessly and seamlessly across government to co-ordinate the UK response.

The safety and security of British nationals continues to be our utmost priority. We began supported departures on Monday, prioritising British passport holders and their families. Our support for British nationals has not been impacted by the relocation of British embassy staff, who continue to operate around the clock from a neighbouring country alongside staff here in London working 24/7 to support British nationals and promote a peaceful resolution. We are asking all British nationals in Sudan to register their presence with us. In response to a question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I say that our latest figures are that 2,500 people are already registered and now receiving at least daily updates by text and email. That helps enable us to remain in contact and monitor their well-being while we find a safe passage from Sudan in highly complex circumstances.

Despite the ceasefire, the situation remains highly volatile, and movement around the capital is extremely dangerous. No evacuation options come without risk to life and, in most cases, serious risk to life. Khartoum Airport is out of action, energy supplies are disrupted, food and water are becoming increasingly scarce, and internet and telephone networks are becoming difficult to access, with levels of 2% in some parts. We continue to advise all British nationals in Sudan who do not have departure plans to remain indoors where possible. We recognise that circumstances will vary in different locations, so we are asking people to exercise their own judgment about whether to relocate as we initiate an evacuation plan during this unpredictable ceasefire.

We are following closely reports of independent convoys departing Khartoum for Port Sudan. The British embassy has no involvement in those convoys so I emphasise that joining them would be at British nationals’ own risk. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked how many British nationals, other than those working for the Government, had been evacuated; as of 6 am today, that number was 231.

Ending the violence is the single most important thing we can do to guarantee the safety of British nationals and, of course, everyone in Sudan. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State for Defence have all been in continuous contact with international allies and key regional partners since this outbreak of violence, to agree a joint approach to both evacuation and de-escalation of violence. Over the weekend, the Prime Minister spoke to his counterparts, including Egypt’s President Sisi. The Foreign Secretary was in contact with the Kenyan President, the US Secretary of State, the Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Sweden, Turkey and Cyprus, and the EU high representative for foreign and security policy. The Defence Secretary has engaged with counterparts in Djibouti, as well as in the US, France and Egypt. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that the Minister of State for Africa has spoken to the African Union and the Prime Minister in exile of Sudan, upon whom so many hopes had rested. Further escalation of this conflict, particularly if it spills into neighbouring countries, would clearly be disastrous. As we continue to make clear, this must a be a genuine and lasting ceasefire.

To conclude, the Government are working round the clock to ensure the safety of our nationals, and to support and encourage all parties to maintain this current ceasefire. A peaceful political transition to democracy and civilian governance is still possible in Sudan, but while the fighting continues, we expect those casualty numbers that I cited earlier to rise. Government departments and military personnel are working hand in glove to initiate a safe evacuation for our nationals in incredibly complex and challenging circumstances. The Government undertake to keep the House informed and, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned, there will be an update tomorrow.

Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I join the Government in condemning the appalling and cowardly murder of Lucy, Maia and Rina Dee, and send our deepest condolences to Rabbi Leo Dee and the rest of the family.

This year has been one of the deadliest for Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories: 98 Palestinians, including at least 17 children, have been killed by Israeli forces, and 17 Israelis have been killed so far in 2023. Each life lost is a tragedy, and every Palestinian and Israeli deserves a just solution to the conflict. As Andrew Mitchell said in the debate on the Statement:

“When the House speaks with one voice, particularly in its condemnation of human rights abuses, we have an impact, and our voices are heard”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/4/23; col. 394.]


We must therefore be united in strongly opposing all actions that make a two-state solution harder to achieve, including rocket attacks, the expansion of illegal settlements, settler violence and evictions and demolitions, and condemn all acts of terrorism.

Last month, the 2030 Roadmap for UK-Israel Bilateral Relations was signed, and Andrew Mitchell assured the other place that it did not indicate any change in the UK’s long-established position on a two-state solution. Can the Minister therefore explain why there was no mention of this objective in the road map?

Andrew Mitchell also referred to the meetings between the Israelis and Palestinians in Aqaba and Sharm el-Sheikh to discuss ways to de-escalate the rising tensions. What are the Government doing with our international partners to support that process, and what is the Government’s assessment of both Israeli and Palestinian commitments made in those meetings being met?

Earlier today it was reported that a Jordanian MP has been arrested following allegations of attempts to smuggle weapons into Israel. Given concerns that the violence could spread, can the Minister tell us whether we are working with Jordan on de-escalation and engaging on this issue?

Andrew Mitchell said:

“The UK’s position on settlements is absolutely clear: settlements are illegal”.


Earlier this month, UN special rapporteurs called on the international community to raise this issue. Have the Government taken any specific steps on this call?

The Minister stated in the other place that

“the UK is clear that the demolition of Palestinian homes and forced evictions cause unnecessary suffering to ordinary Palestinians and call into question Israel’s commitment to a viable two-state solution”.

He also said that the UK Government

“are also focused on preventing demolitions from happening in the first place … through our legal aid programme”.

Can the noble Lord tell us what resources have been devoted to this programme and what assessment has been made of the success rate in challenging demolitions within the Israeli legal system?

The damage that Israeli restrictions on movement, access and trade inflict on the living standards of ordinary Palestinians, especially in Gaza, is huge. Can the noble Lord tell us what progress has been made on the UK’s call for access into and out of Gaza, in accordance with international humanitarian law, for humanitarian actors, reconstruction materials and those, including Palestinians, travelling for medical purposes? What support are we giving to UN agencies and key partners on the ground in this regard?

In conclusion, Andrew Mitchell stated that

“the UK will recognise a Palestinian state at a time when the Government believe this will best serve the objective of peace”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/4/23; cols. 471-72.]

Can the noble Lord specify the conditions the Government believe need to be met for this to happen?

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, given that it will be a while until we have the repeat of Thursday’s Statement on Sudan, I thank, through the Minister, the envoy for his responsiveness to me on that issue.

I share in the condolences expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, to the family—I know that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, personally provided solace to them—and, in the wider context, to the families of the 17 Israelis killed so far in 2023 and the 17 Palestinian children among the 98 Palestinians. The murders of civilians are especially egregious and must be condemned. The responsibility of those in control is to reduce tension, and this is of course made harder when an Israeli family is devastated by loss, but also when the occupying power, Israel, does not even allow the registration of a Palestinian killed, as we read today. We join in the commemorations of the 75th anniversary of statehood of our ally and friend Israel, but recognise that this is one of the bloodiest years in many, far outstripping the violence last year.

It is therefore regrettable that this year looks less and less like a year of opportunity for peacemaking but rather, one of increased violence, notwithstanding the recent meetings referred to in the Statement. Israel is suffering from terrorism outwith and within its borders, but it is moving to wider breaches of international law with impunity; and moves to put those in the new Government of Israel—the most extreme members of the most right-wing Government in its 75 years—in civilian control of military administration of the illegally occupied territories is, in effect, a proposal for annexation. There is a combination of continuing lack of robust security and control within the Palestinian Authority, but also an Israeli Government facing unprecedented opposition at home.

Of course, for peace there needs to be talk, as the Statement highlighted, and I agree with the Minister in that regard. However, for a significant breakthrough, who would talk? It is correct that Israeli Governments are faced with groups who deny the very existence of the state, but now others face Israeli Ministers who deny the very existence of the Palestinian people. US Israeli groups are refusing to meet Prime Minister Netanyahu because of concerns about the consequences of what he described to CBS’s “Face the Nation” yesterday as legislation to

“make corrections in our judicial system”.

If we all believe in the rule of law—I hope the Minister will agree with this—then the burden is placed on an occupying power as a sovereign entity. However, the only reference to the illegal occupation in the road map referred to is one line in the security section of the introduction:

“We will cooperate in improving Palestinian livelihoods and Palestinian economic development”.


This suggests to any reader that we consider Palestine to be a federal province rather than an occupied territory. However, regardless of the view on that, we have actively and deliberately cut economic development support to Palestine, inhibiting the development of livelihoods, which acts against avowed UK policy. As I have raised previously, why has UK support for Palestine, which was £102 million in 2020, been reduced to £6 million in 2023-24? Department for Business and Trade funding for economic development in the area, which was stressed specifically in the road map Statement, has been cut from £25 million to zero. What impact does the Minister believe that will have, and what likelihood is there that there will be support for economic development within Palestine? If the UK plays a role, it must be to make a two-state solution viable in a practical way.

Finally, I welcome chapter 12 of the road map, on gender, but why is it silent on other areas of tolerance? Avi Maoz was a deputy Minister under Netanyahu—a religious nationalist, anti-Arab and anti-LGBTQ coalition partner representative. Mr Maoz has described LGBT people as a threat to the family and said that he wanted to cancel gay pride parades. He has also said that a woman’s greatest’s contribution is in marriage and raising a family. Are UK Ministers engaging with all parties in the coalition in order to develop the road map, or only with certain of them? Regarding those who are still in government who are homophobic, are the Government intending to work with them on chapter 12, and why have other areas of tolerance been excluded? I hope the Minister can respond to these points.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lords from the two Front Benches for their support for the Government’s Statement and add our unequivocal condemnation of acts of terrorism which, tragically, saw yet another family, that of Rabbi Dee, ripped apart, with the incredible loss that he and the Dee family have suffered, with the loss of both his wife and two beautiful daughters. I know I speak for the whole House in once again reiterating both our collective sense of abhorrence of the act of terror that took their lives and our strong sense of solidarity and support at this very trying time.

That said, there has been the generosity and strength of spirit shown by Rabbi Dee himself through his engagement. Noble Lords will have read the letter that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary sent to Rabbi Dee. I had the opportunity to visit Lucy Dee’s family and meet her parents, sisters and brother at their home and join the shiva. I can share with noble Lords the incredible sense of tolerance and recognition. There was no hate being directed to those who had carried out these abhorrent acts. There was, yes, a call for justice, but, equally, a recognition of our common humanity. There could not be no better example of that then in the donation we saw of Lucy Dee’s organs, one of which went to a Palestinian Arab.

It reflects a common humanity when we see such acts of violence as we have seen and some acts of terror as we have witnessed recently. As the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, both alluded to, the toll on human life is incredible. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, every life lost is a tragedy in itself. That is why I assure both noble Lords that we remain absolutely committed to a two-state solution, where we see not just the independence of both states. In the world in which we stand, ultimately there will be an interdependence between a future Palestinian state and the State of Israel.

Israel has, of course, an absolute right to protect its citizens. That is why, when the events unfolded at the Al-Aqsa mosque, we were among the first directly to raise the reaction that we saw across the Arab and Islamic world. I engaged quite directly with the Israeli authorities, as I did with the Palestinian authorities and other key neighbours. We immediately needed a de-escalation. Of course, we saw further attacks, with the missiles that were launched into Israel from both Lebanon and Gaza, but, thankfully, with both the Palestinians and the Israeli Government, notwithstanding some of the responses, after that period ended—and long may it last—we saw a de-escalation and, thankfully, the violence that was being experienced receded.

Turning to some of the specific questions, I assure both noble Lords that the United Kingdom remains absolutely engaged on the issue of Israel and our relationship with the OPTs. Recently, I have been engaging directly. I had a conversation with the Israeli ambassador on Friday. Prior to that, I met Husam Zumlot, the Palestinian representative. There were a couple of points about the road map, raised by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, that I was able to deal with. This in no way undermines or changes the position of the United Kingdom Government on the two-state solution. Equally, however, it is important that we recognise Israel as a partner and move forward on a bilateral basis to strengthen our relationship. As both noble Lords alluded to, there were specific references made to the importance of our relationship and our different partnerships, but also Israel’s current role in the OPTs. As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, alluded to, the issue of security is paramount, but the welfare of Palestinians in the OPTs is also important.

On the point on settlements raised by both noble Lords, again, the United Kingdom Government are absolutely clear. We regard the settlements as illegal and against progress on the two-state solution. Many within Israel have also challenged the current Government in the calls they have made on certain of the outposts. On the converse, I would say, as I saw myself through my visit to Israel when the new Government came in, Israel is a robust democracy where the independence of the judiciary is respected. Many within Israel are having the very discussions which have seized many parts of the world. It is important that that vibrancy of that democracy demonstrates the discussions that are taking place.

On the issue of the two-state solution and recognition of Palestine at the appropriate time, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referenced my right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell. It is very important—we have been stressing this through our direct engagement—that the next step must be a restart of direct negotiations between the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli Government. We are certainly working with key partners, and directly with both, to ensure that we play our part. That is why we were involved in the discussions that took place on de-escalation at both Aqaba and Sharm el-Sheikh. I visited Cairo in this respect. I also had a very constructive meeting with Foreign Minister Shoukry about the important role that Egypt and Jordan play, as two countries that have signed peace agreements with the State of Israel.

On the issue of routes into and providing support to the Palestinian Territories, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, understandably raised, and I recognise, that there has been a reduction of support in many parts of the world through the reduction of ODA, but, last year, we again supported the UN on the ground, including UNRWA. When I went to Hebron recently, I also visited an UNRWA school. It is important that other countries in the region also support the livelihood and education of Palestinian children.

When I met Ministers in the Israeli Government, I also raised the importance and responsibility of raising the prosperity agenda, seeing opportunities that can exist for all citizens, including, in this instance, Arab citizens within the State of Israel. I visited Technion when I went to the city of Haifa, and saw how education is both empowering and enabling all communities within Israel, but we want that opportunity equally for people within the OPTs and, ultimately, progress towards a viable, sustainable Palestinian state. For that, we need not only strong co-operation between Israel and the Palestinian Authority but the support of those key partners who have signed deals with Israel. That is why, within the road map, we also stressed the importance of strengthening the Abraham Accords. I do not see them as separate routes; they are all part of the same equation to see how we can strengthen and see stability and security prevail within that part of the world.

On the issues raised about economic development, I agree with both noble Lords on the issue of two-state solutions; I do not think there is a difference between the views of any parties about the importance of the viability of a two-state solution. In that, I am on record, as are colleagues of mine, including the Foreign Secretary, on the position I have already stated on the illegal settlements, but also that, ultimately, the next important step is negotiation—but there needs to be valid partners for that. The security and stability of Israel are important, as is the welfare and progress of every Palestinian. There is loss of life—we see the Dee family and what has been suffered. We see demolitions: I went to Masafer Yatta—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised this—to profile the importance of retaining institutions which have been built, such as schools and community centres, and to highlight the importance of the welfare of Palestinian communities, particularly those beyond Area A, according to the Oslo Accords.

Whether it is the toll of the tragic and abhorrent deaths through terrorism of Lucy Dee, Maia and Rina, or the death of 15 year-old Muhammad Nidal, these are all individuals, yes, but they are all families, and the impact is being felt by everyone across both Israel and the OPTs.

I assure noble Lords that, since taking on this brief, I have prioritised the importance of direct engagement by the United Kingdom Government, and I will continue to do so and update the House accordingly.

Yemen and South Sudan: Humanitarian Crises

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 20th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know of my noble friend’s interest in the Commonwealth, which is an organisation that I know well. During the PSVI conference back in November, there was some hope about the situation in South Sudan. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and I met with the then Defence Minister on various issues concerning how we could strengthen South Sudan, including its place in the international community. However, things have since taken a rather regressive path—indeed, the Defence Minister herself is no longer in place. First and foremost, we need unity among the different parties in South Sudan, and then I am sure we can move forward on other considerations as well.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister alluded to, humanitarian aid and co-ordination for South Sudan and Juba is through Khartoum and Khartoum Airport. I repeat my interest that I was in Khartoum over the Easter Recess, and in my March visit I met separately with Generals Burhan and Hemedti. Last night I had an opportunity to speak to the deputy head of the doctors’ union from Khartoum, who relayed to me the sheer horror of the medical crisis in Khartoum at the moment, and the problem of getting supplies into Khartoum Airport. He asked me to make a direct appeal, at Heads of Government level, to seek a monitorable cessation of hostilities in Khartoum to secure the airport open, which would allow medical assistance in and let co-ordinators for South Sudan and Juba to continue their much-needed work.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord we are very seized of this. The discussions around the situation in Sudan took place at the G7 Foreign Ministers meeting. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has engaged with key partners, including the troika who have key responsibility in Sudan. We are also engaging directly at senior level, as my right honourable friend has with Foreign Ministers in the near regions, particularly countries such as the UAE, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, which have obvious influence on the ground in South Sudan.

UN: Individuals Displaced by Conflict

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 20th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare a voluntary interest as the UK chair of the peacebuilding charity Search for Common Ground. The UK is and continues to be a world leader in the “do no harm” principle, but the Independent Commission for Aid Impact highlighted a concern in its December report that:

“The UK government’s poor donor practice weakened results and increased the risk of doing harm”.


Has the FCDO had an opportunity to reflect on the ICAI report, and how will it ensure that we improve our delivery of peacebuilding services to ensure that we do not undermine the “do no harm” principle?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the FCDO is a permanently evolving organisation. We always try to refine and improve the manner in which we make substantial annual investments. Despite the cuts to spending, which the noble Lord rightly raises on a regular basis, we remain a major partner to the UN and other multilateral organisations, while spending more bilaterally to allow us to focus on the UK’s highest priorities. We are providing £108 million in core funding to UN humanitarian agencies this year, which makes us one of the top contributors of unearmarked support. That includes £33 million to the UNHCR and £6 million to the International Organization for Migration, and we will provide a far higher figure through country-specific programmes.

Sudan

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Government for making this Statement. The situation is extremely worrying.

One concern has been about the external players in the conflict. NGOs and investigative reporters say that the Wagner Group is known to be active in Sudan, pointing to its involvement in gold mining and smuggling, alongside training and arms procurement. Yesterday the Wagner Group explicitly denied having any fighters in Sudan for the last two years. What assessment has the Foreign Office made of external players in the recent clashes?

Fighting appears currently to be centred on the army headquarters and Khartoum airport. The Statement refers to it spreading to other cities. Given that the army headquarters and the airport are situated close to residential neighbourhoods, how is the UK working with international counterparts to protect civilians? Many residents across Khartoum have left the city in recent days after losing access to food, water and power, so may I press the Minister further on what is being done to support multilateral activity, as well as the Government’s assessment of the humanitarian risk to other regional states?

What is the scale of possible displacement of people, and what steps are being taken to rapidly increase humanitarian capacity to match that displacement? We know that IDP camps, as well as humanitarian aid workers, have already been targeted. What discussions have there been about international steps to increase protections and specifically deter this targeting?

The risks of destabilisation are significant, particularly to Chad, the CAR and South Sudan, so what work is being done at Security Council level to assess the linkages between the factions in the Sudan conflict and armed groups that are either active or quiescent but still organised in neighbouring states? What are we doing and what steps are we taking urgently to reassess and potentially strengthen UN arms embargoes? In the medium term, will the UK support further investigations into the sources of the arms and dual-use goods, in particular the technical vehicles, that are being used in this current conflict?

Martin Griffiths, the UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs, has stated that the UN OCHA office in Darfur has been looted amidst increasing attacks on aid workers. Are the UK’s representatives at the UN helping to secure the safety of the humanitarian workers across Sudan, working with our partners? How is the FCDO monitoring the safety of UK nationals, who the Statement referred to? Are there plans to follow Japan and Kenya and evacuate our nationals, including FCDO staff? Japan is reportedly looking to evacuate its nationals on military planes. Some human rights monitors from the region actively welcome this as they believe a corridor created to evacuate internationals is more likely to be respected by conflicting parties than the humanitarian corridors, which, sadly, have repeatedly broken down.

During questions on the Statement to the Minister in the other place, James Duddridge asked about the security of the oil pipelines from South Sudan and revenue sharing, which is by far the main source of revenue and foreign exchange other than aid. There was no specific response to that question. I hope the Minister will be able to respond to it tonight.

I conclude by asking whether the Minister can give us an update on the progress of the mediation efforts between the AU and IGAD, the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, in the region. What are we doing to support those mediation efforts and to promote a ceasefire as soon as possible? It is clear that we were not altogether prepared for this, although the FCDO assessed that conflict was possible. Were we able to seek or obtain more detailed intelligence from our partners and other countries, including specifically the Gulf states and Egypt, on whether this was more likely to happen? I hope the Minister can advise us on that.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register and declare that I was in Khartoum, accompanied by my noble friend Lady Suttie, during the Easter Recess. That was my 16th visit to Sudan. In March I met separately with both generals, Burhan and Hemedti. I played a small part in supporting the political dialogue among civilian forces and then the signatories to the framework agreement, to which the Statement referred. I am in constant contact with friends and their families, colleagues and those in civilian groups who continue to face incredible fear, hardship and suffering as a result of this horrific violence.

My points to the Minister relate first to the immediate and then to the medium term. His Majesty’s Government must be doing everything they can to protect civilians. We already know that only five of 59 medical centres are functioning in Khartoum. The Sudan Doctors’ Union says that the health system, in a city of 10 million, is “beyond collapse”. Civilian areas have also been targeted. Combatants must be warned in clear terms that targeting civilians, from airstrikes in civilian areas to looting and pressurising for water and supplies, is a war crime. Water and electricity are in an unreliable condition at the moment, with temperatures of nearly 40 degrees centigrade on my recent visit there. Medical supplies are scarce and infrastructure throughout the country is unsafe. Threats to “sweep” neighbourhoods are a use of terror against civilians, and all combatants need to be warned of that in the clearest terms.

It is underreported, as most journalists are in Khartoum, but I am deeply concerned about the humanitarian safety of civilians in Darfur and other conflict-afflicted states within Sudan, where so much political dialogue had been focused since the coup. Diplomatic, INGO and civil society leaders must also be protected. We must now have plans for securing evacuation routes if necessary. I know that airport and that area extremely well. It will be complex but it may be necessary.

Also, our Prime Minister must immediately call for and, with Quad leaders, Egypt and Gulf allies, ensure at the very least that there is no munition and military equipment replenishment, as there is currently limited monitoring and geolocation of these supplies. We must quickly and in clear terms warn those who seek to disrupt, such as Islamist or former Bashir regime actors, that there will be personal, co-ordinated sanctions from the international community. The Minister now knows why, for months, I have repeatedly been calling for action on the Wagner Group.

Beyond securing immediate and medium-term safety and humanitarian support, I acknowledge and fully agree with the joint statement from Secretary Blinken and our Foreign Secretary, but now our Prime Minister and President Biden must, at Head of Government and Head of State level, speak with President Mohammed bin Zayed and President Sisi. The loyalties of those two countries to the combatants and their influence on them is widely known, and together with King Salman, who can offer brokerage, we must ensure a cessation for the festival of Eid.

The cessation must be monitored through an agreed mechanism, and we now need to be open to progressing to Chapter 7 processes and begin to plan and pretrain a potential AU/ UN peacekeeping component with UK support. Airports, sea and land terminals, and key strategic infrastructure must become safe and operational immediately, and trusted in the medium to long term.

I understand that some belligerents today are willing to engage again in dialogue. This must be actively supported and not discouraged by the actions of regional powers. If a Saudi and former Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok initiative can be started for the medium term, we must support this. I believe that there can be an opportunity for a Riyadh peace summit, linked with an Eid cessation, with Foreign Minister-level representatives from the Quad, IGAD, the AU and UNITAMS to agree the continuation of the cessation of hostilities, the safety of key sites, at least minimal engagement on high-level security sector reform and the recommencement of engagement with civil society.

Finally, there is a major fear that, should the existing command structures of the SAF and the RSF break down and resources become scarce, the real and present threat of tribal, ideological, theological and dispersed violence will create an even more horrific humanitarian crisis than we are seeing now. We cannot afford for Sudan to descend to be a failed state. This is the time for us at Heads of Government level to be intensively involved to prevent that. Civil leaders have worked so hard to come around common proposals for transition— I had the privilege to play an extremely modest role in that—and that cannot be lost. Sudan is a country I love. I admire its people, and we must not let them down.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank both noble Lords for their questions and for much, indeed all, of what they said. I agree with them. The situation in Sudan is appalling and it is abhorrent. Attacks are taking place on diplomats and, as the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, said, on INGOs and civil society actors. I recognise the important role of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. He has constantly kept me updated, and I am grateful for that. I welcome his detailed insights from the work he has carried out, and I know how much personal commitment, passion and principle he has applied in bringing the various sides together. It is tragic to see that, after what was offered as great hope following the removal of the former president, both sides have now descended into what can be described only as a country heading towards civil war. Clearly, Khartoum is being challenged immensely.

Both the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talked about outside influences. There are particular concerns over the Wagner Group, and while statements have been made, I think we take it for what it is. We know the influence of the Wagner Group. It is not just a mercenary force; it has economic clout behind it. We have already seen its influence in other parts of the African continent, particularly in the Sahel, and we need to be very vigilant about what is happening on the ground. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, also talked about Darfur. Of course, it was the centre of the RSF, but they have clearly travelled much further around the country. On my previous visit to Sudan, I visited Darfur in the aftermath of the conflict, particularly to address the issue of preventing sexual violence in conflict. It was tragic still to see not just the marginalisation but the sheer lack of engagement and the lack of rights for women and minorities. I fear that the situation will get much worse.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the oil pipelines. It is interesting that our reports suggest that there is no evidence that either side is attacking those pipelines. If there is one glimmer of hope, it is that they both recognise the economic value attached to this asset of Sudan.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about the support that we are giving to international organisations, particularly UN agencies and others. We are working very closely with them. He will have followed the statement in the UN Security Council. I have a trip scheduled to the UN in the early part of May, and I am scoping to see whether there is further action that we can take in that respect. I am the Minister responsible for the UN and recognise that, as a penholder, we have a specific responsibility.

Both noble Lords talked of other partners. I am sure they followed the joint statement made by Secretary of State Blinken and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. My right honourable friend has also been engaging quite directly, notwithstanding his visit to the Far East. He has had a series of calls at a very senior level with key partners and discussions at the G7, and with a number of Gulf states which, as both noble Lords pointed out, have a role to play. We are engaging very closely with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and my right honourable friend had a call with Foreign Minister Shoukry of Egypt. Indeed, on a recent visit to Egypt I raised Sudan directly with him, and we recognise Egypt’s influence over both sides in this conflict.

While noting what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said about Heads of Government engagement, I am sure he will recognise that the most senior diplomats at Foreign Minister level are engaging extensively and that all our partners, including those in the Gulf, recognise the important role of the African Union and IGAD, and that they need to impress upon both sides the need for an immediate cessation of hostilities. We need a cessation, and Eid provides exactly that kind of respite. We are exploring that fully with our key partners.

Equally, how do we bring about some kind of sustainable solution? I am sure both noble Lords agree that both sides need to recognise that violence is not a means to an end. If one side was to win over the other, whichever that might be, that would not suddenly green-light the embrace of the international community, and that is a point we have made consistently. We have a special envoy to the region, who I know has been engaging extensively with other key parties and talking on an almost daily basis with senior officials in that regard. That conversation is ongoing.

On mediation efforts being undertaken by IGAD, the UN and the African Union, we are of course fully supportive. However, as I have already said, we are also talking to other key players, including those in the Gulf, who have important influence in this respect.

On corridors for humanitarian aid and to allow the departure of foreign nationals, we are working on that as a key priority. Both noble Lords will have seen the Foreign Office advice. At the moment, some of our diplomats are on the ground. The noble Lord referred to Japan and other counties that are planning evacuations. Without going into the details, we are very much seized of all the options we need to keep open to ensure the safety and security of, first and foremost, British nationals, including diplomatic staff, and also other nationalities. We are working very closely with them to ensure that there is a respite and that a corridor is opened to allow that access to be provided.

I fear that the humanitarian situation will go from bad to worse. The UN OCHA has been attacked directly, as the noble Lord Collins mentioned. The WFP has also been targeted specifically. Repeated attempts are being made on the diplomatic corps, and we saw the attack on the EU ambassador. These things are not just alarming and tragic but are real warning signals, and therefore we have to ensure that the maximum diplomatic pressure is put on. A notable reference was made to sanctions et cetera, and, while I cannot speculate, we will look at whatever tools we have and work in conjunction with key partners in this respect.

Our priority remains an immediate cessation of the hostilities for the short term. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that we need long-term solutions. He will be perhaps best placed in the House currently to agree with me that, notwithstanding diplomatic efforts, long-term planning and investment in the diplomatic channels, recent events have shown again how vulnerable the situation is on the ground.

For clarity, we are of course currently advising against all travel to Sudan. Our global centre is taking calls and supporting British nationals quite directly, as well as their relatives and families. This is a fluid situation; indeed, from the time I was first briefed to the time I was coming to the House, I was continuing to be briefed about this situation.

I assure noble Lords that I will continue to update them, and I would welcome a specific meeting. I have said to our special envoy to invite the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for a more detailed meeting, and I have taken on board some of the noble Lord’s suggestions. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that I will keep him updated in the usual way—not just in the House but through the demonstrably strong channels of communication that we have across Front Benches.

Vladimir Kara-Murza

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s first question, of course sanctions remain an obvious tool for us. I assure the noble Lord that, in line with what my right honourable friend said in the other place, we are looking at all tools available to us, including the issue of sanctions. I accept, as the noble Lord pointed out, that other countries including the US and Canada have already sanctioned a number of individuals, while, going back to the time of those responsible for issues around Sergei Magnitsky, we have sanctioned two individuals. But I take on board what the noble Lord has said. I cannot give him a specific date—I am sure he will appreciate that—but I assure him that the FCDO is fully seized with ensuring that appropriate steps can be taken with whatever tools are at our disposal.

On the second question, the summoning of the ambassador did indeed happen. We made it very clear, under our view of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, that we should be given full access. We have demanded that. Mr Kara-Murza has been detained for just over a year. During that time, we have made numerous applications for consular access. The noble Lord will be aware that, with regret, Russia does not recognise dual nationality. That is Russia’s perspective, not ours. Again, we made it very clear to the Russian ambassador during his summoning that we require full access. Indeed, the point that we should be granted full consular access was made by our ambassador on the ground after the verdict was handed out on the steps in conjunction with others. I will update the House, the noble Lord and the Front Benches appropriately if we see progress in this regard. I can assure the noble Lord that this remains a key priority.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, with respect, the Minister did not explain why we did not choose to be in lockstep with the Canadians in November 2022. On 10 November, Canada announced the extension of its sanctions to 23 individuals across the Russian justice and security sector,

“including police officers and investigators, prosecutors … including senior Russian government officials”.

So why is it only now, in connection with a joint national, that these options are being considered? With regard to those whom we recognise as joint nationals even if the Russians do not, who are living in Russia and are now vulnerable to a highly politicised and non-independent judiciary, is the point not that we are simply summoning an ambassador and warning that there should be consular access, rather than that there will be repercussions across the entirety of the politicised judiciary, investigative prosecutors and government officials—that they will be instantly sanctioned, and jointly sanctioned by the US, Canada, the UK and our partners?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, we do work very much in lockstep with our key partners. Systems and structures of sanctioning are different in each country and processes need to be followed, including on ensuring the robustness of the sanctions we apply. There is little more that I can add to what I have already said. But, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we are very much seized of all the tools available to us, including sanctions. As updates are made, I will of course update noble Lords in that respect.

Council of Europe: Reykjavik Summit

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom has been historically a supporter of the Council of Europe—indeed, we can go back to the times of the great Winston Churchill in our support for it and, indeed, as architects of it and of the fundamental principles of standing up for the human rights of all. The United Kingdom is and will remain a key part of the Council of Europe. On the noble Lord’s question, I can do no better than to quote my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, who said during a parliamentary debate on this very issue:

“The UK is and will remain a member of the ECHR”.—[Official Report, 27/2/23; col. 594.]

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, in light of the human rights abuses in Ukraine, it is absolutely right that the summit will put the strengthening of the European Court of Human Rights at the centre of its agenda. Is it not jarring, therefore, that the UK Government are planning, in Clause 51 of their Illegal Migration Bill, powers to set aside interim measures of the European Court of Human Rights on safety and security? Why is the UK’s response to calls to strengthen the court legislation to ignore it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure there will be an opportunity, when the Bill passes through the other place and comes to the House of Lords, to debate it extensively. It is important that we stand up for our obligations, including those we have made to conventions we signed up to, and for the role that the ECHR has played historically and continues to play. The United Kingdom agrees that, when we look at certain issues, including the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia, the ECHR and indeed the Council of Europe are playing a very important role.

Azerbaijan: Khojaly Massacre

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Monday 17th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, prior to the violence in 2020, I hosted dialogue with young people in the region and, most recently, was concerned with the tension. The Minister is absolutely right that the reliability and dependability of the Russian peacekeeping force currently present is now under question. The EU has had one successful peacekeeping operation there, and its negotiations are carrying on. The Minister referred to the others who are engaged in negotiations—hopefully peace negotiations. Is the UK supporting the EU’s work, and are we offering technical assistance for its work in the negotiations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we support all noble attempts at negotiation and bringing about an end to all conflicts. The situation in Nagorno-Karabakh has gone on far too long. The primary engagement through European bodies is through the OSCE, where many members of the European Union are present. We work closely with our partners in that context.