Industrial Strategy: Engagement

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Share ownership can be a part of this but engagement of people in their workplace goes much deeper and is much more of a day-to-day issue than share ownership or board directors and the like. John Lewis and the mutuals have demonstrated the value of mutuality and ownership, so this does have a part to play. However, it is only part of a much bigger picture.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of a public company. Will my noble friend look at the widespread practice among fund managers and large shareholders of contracting out their responsibilities for corporate governance to outside organisations, and encourage them to engage directly with companies involved in the matters which concern the Government, such as executive pay and other matters?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

The noble Lord may have seen the letter that BlackRock sent round to all FTSE 100 companies in which it talked very strongly about the need for long-term sustainable improvements when considering remuneration. I was pretty staggered to see that between 1998 and 2015 the average take-home pay of a FTSE 100 chief executive has gone up from £1 million to over £4 million. In 1998, that represented 47 times the average salary of an employee, now it is over 128 times. Remuneration is a very serious issue and if we want to live in a fair society, we need to address it.

Brexit: Consumer Rights Policy

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Thursday 9th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not think that it is very sad, and a counsel of despair, that with all the expertise in this House and the other place, it is not possible for this Parliament to devise a scheme that will protect the rights of British consumers?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My noble friend is right: there are legitimate concerns over such a big change. However, we should be relatively optimistic that we can sort them out in the best interests of British consumers.

Brexit: Single Market and Workers’ Rights

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has said that, under this Government, workers’ rights will not be eroded and will be not just protected but enhanced. The Government’s commitment is absolutely clear. As we regain sovereignty over these issues it will be up to subsequent Parliaments to make these decisions themselves.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, it is a sad day when the TUC no longer has faith in the Labour Party, the Liberal Party and this British Parliament to defend the rights of British workers. Is it not the case that British workers enjoy rights far beyond EU requirements, for example in respect of maternity pay?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Yes, there are many examples where people who work in the UK have stronger rights than those guaranteed in the EU. Maternity rights are one case and rights to statutory leave are another example.

Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Monday 4th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Prior of Brampton) (Con)]

My Lords, before this debate started I had feared that it would be a bit like Groundhog Day in relation to what happened in the Grand Committee Room earlier. However, it has been a fascinating and excellent debate. I thank the noble Lords, Lord Callanan and Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, for tabling their various Motions and amendments. This has been a very good debate.

I start from the premise that all my instincts are always against regulation. In my view, there is normally a presumption against regulation. I should also make it absolutely clear that there is no doubt that vaping is far better for you than smoking. If, as a result of these regulations, more people were to carry on smoking, we would indeed have shot ourselves in the foot. To pick up the analogy that my noble friend Lord Ridley used about needle exchanges, the point is that they should at least be clean needles. I agree with his argument but we need some regulation to ensure that vaping is not abused, if I can put it that way.

I wish to make a small number of important points which have been raised by noble Lords. First, we have fought long and hard to denormalise smoking behaviours, and Members of this House have been at the forefront of that. It is right to take a precautionary approach to managing any risk that e-cigarettes renormalise smoking behaviours, particularly by restricting children’s exposure to e-cigarette marketing and imagery. Glamorising these products, with adverts reminiscent of those from the tobacco industry many years ago, can only make them more attractive to children. Recent research by the Cambridge behaviour research unit also suggests that exposure to e-cigarette adverts influences children’s perception of smoking tobacco. It reduces their belief in the harm of occasional smoking. This has the potential to undermine some of the great progress we have made over the last six decades in controlling the smoking of tobacco.

I know that there are calls for a return to self-regulation, but just last week we saw the Advertising Standards Authority rule on a glamorous advert. I do not think that props are allowed in this House, but this is a four-page advert on the front and back of the Evening Standard. On the front, there is a very attractive young woman looking out over London while smoking a cigarette. On the back, there is a James Bond lookalike jumping out of a helicopter. That is not aimed at people who are smoking but at young people who might then think about smoking. Figures have been put about showing that there is no evidence that young people are influenced by this kind of advertising. However, that is not the case everywhere. The US is seeing an upward trend in children who have never smoked cigarettes using e-cigarettes, and data from Poland show that 30% of children surveyed use e-cigarettes. The Government have therefore taken a precautionary approach to any possible risk of the renormalisation of smoking behaviours.

Some 96% of smokers are already aware of e-cigarettes, so I am clear that promotion is not about raising consumer awareness, which already accounts for 96% of that market. While businesses’ ability to communicate about their products may have been curtailed in the interests of protecting children, they have not been banned outright. The regulations will not prohibit information being provided to customers either online or in physical retail outlets. Nor will they ban independent reviews of these products or discussion in e-forums. Some advertising will be allowed, such as point-of-sale, billboards and leaflets. Essentially, these are the information routes that were used when e-cigarette sales and use were growing the fastest. My noble friend made a point about billboards, buses and the like. The reason for the distinction between outlets is to try to minimise the impact on young people. That is what lies behind the differentiation between advertising media.

Secondly, the regulations provide minimum product standards and reporting of ingredients and emissions. This should reassure smokers who are looking to quit that e-cigarettes are safe and high quality, and give the Government and health professionals such as GPs confidence in recommending them to smokers. The product standards in the regulations are a result of balancing user needs and risk of accidental exposure to children. Of the reported poisoning incidents, running at some 250 a year, one-third relate to young children under the age of four. The regulations require child-resistant packaging, and the 20 milligrams per millilitre limit for nicotine, combined with the size restrictions on tanks, ensures a maximum exposure of 40 milligrams of nicotine, which is below the level of 50 milligrams that the European Chemical Agency assesses would cause acute toxic effects for toddlers. ASH recently published data indicating that only 9% of vapers report using e-liquid containing 19 milligrams per millilitre or more of nicotine. I know that my noble friend Lord Cathcart is a heavy user of this particular substance, but he is among only 9%. Moreover, the changes in technology will make it increasingly possible for users to get high levels of nicotine uptake for any given strength. Producers can of course get a higher strength approved by the MHRA.

My third main argument in favour of these regulations is that the UK’s approach to the regulation of e-cigarettes has, and will remain, pragmatic and evidence-based. We have one of the most liberal approaches to e-cigarette regulation in the world. We have implemented domestic age-of-sale legislation, preventing sale to under-18s, but we have not banned flavours in e-liquids or cross-border distance sales, nor have we restricted vaping in public places. I remind noble Lords that the latter two measures have been introduced in around two-thirds of all other EU member states and are also common in other parts of the world. I am not sure whether the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, is right when he talks about gold-plating in this context.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am contemplating the Minister’s argument about children being exposed to dangerous quantities of nicotine—which obviously one wants to avoid—and how there is therefore a need to reduce the packaging. Is he planning to do the same for other household products such as domestic bleach and dishwasher liquid? We cannot approach that kind of problem through regulation: surely it is about encouraging parents to behave responsibly.

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

There are of course many products which do have tamper-proof packaging and we cannot debate all the ones the noble Lord mentioned. It seems to me entirely reasonable that this particular product should be tamper-proof. If a child were to swallow nicotine in these kinds of volumes it would have a very serious impact. It is entirely reasonable to have tamper-proof packaging.

The Government have asked the MHRA, local authorities and others involved in the enforcement of these regulations to develop a compliance regime together with the businesses which are currently in this industry. We will take a pragmatic approach to implementing the new notification system. Notification fees are low—£150 per product and £60 annually as a top-up—and are set to recover costs only. The MHRA has also developed guidance that minimises the burden on business.

E-cigarettes are not harmless. Nicotine is both toxic and addictive and there are unanswered questions about the effects of longer-term use. It is better to vape than to smoke but it is far better to do neither. These regulations reduce the risk of harm to children and protect against the renormalisation of tobacco use. They provide assurance on relative safety for users and legal certainty for businesses that wish to sell these products across the EU. I also underline that the regulations have the full support of the four nations of the UK, as well as many of those in the health community that have been involved in tobacco reduction, including ASH, Cancer Research UK and the British Medical Association. The Royal College of Physicians agrees in its report on the need for regulation of e-cigarettes to protect the public, and states that although e-cigarettes are estimated to be in the order of 95% less harmful than smoked tobacco, they are not harmless.

Moving forward, the Government are committed to a full review of the functioning of the regulations, including—

NHS: Diabetes

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Thursday 26th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, I will certainly endeavour to do that. If the noble and learned Lord has a keen interest in research into type 1 diabetes, I am happy to meet with him outside and with anyone else who would like to join us.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the considerable pressure on the National Health Service would be relieved if we were able to control levels of immigration into this country—we have shocking levels today—and if we did not have to make a net contribution of £10 billion to the European Union?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, I am not sure that that question has much to do with the original Question on the Order Paper. However, without the levels of immigration that we have had in the past, the NHS simply could not operate.

E-cigarettes: Regulation

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Monday 7th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, we are capable of looking after vaping devices on our own, but if we ever want to sell into the European market, we will have to abide by those regulations.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, is it not perfectly obvious that big business is lobbying Brussels to shut out competition, that e-cigarettes cost less, which limits the impact of highly regressive taxes on tobacco, and that they enable people to save their health? Will my noble friend admit that the Government are powerless to do anything about this?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

No, I do not admit that the Government are powerless to do anything about this. I do not believe that the origins of this directive have anything to do with limiting competition; they are based in trying to have a regulated market where safety and quality are guaranteed.

NHS: Preventive Medicine

Debate between Lord Prior of Brampton and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Wednesday 20th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Successive Governments have had a huge impact on reducing smoking levels, which are now down to 18%—the lowest they have ever been.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, would this not be a suitable subject to be considered by a royal commission on the health service, which my noble friend Lord Fowler has advocated and for which he has considerable support in all parts of the House?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the issue to which my noble friend refers was fairly fully discussed in a debate in this House initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, only some two months ago. If Members of this House wish to discuss it further, they are, of course, very welcome to do so. However, I am not sure that a royal commission is necessarily the right way to proceed.