Uncollected Financial Penalties

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Lord Bellingham

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. It is worth saying that, if somebody fails to pay a fine and they are imprisoned for that failure to pay, then the fine is written off. However, if somebody fails to pay a confiscation order and they are sent to prison, the compensation order amount is not written off. They are different. The other point worth making goes to the point that he made about the work of forensic accountants. A lot of the assets which confiscation orders are applied to are hidden assets, so there is an estimate—an informed guess, if I can put it like that—of the amount when making that confiscation order. Nevertheless, I take the point that he makes in his question. If I can add anything on the number of forensic accountants available to give advice to the court, I will write to him.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that embassies across London owe a total of nearly £150 million in unpaid fines and charges? Obviously, under the Vienna convention, embassies are exempt from taxes but not from these fines and charges. What will the Government do about it?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

What the Government will do is write to the noble Lord. After much time in this House, I know that this issue comes up very regularly. If there was a simple answer to that question, I am sure it would have been found. Nevertheless, it is a real issue. It undermines confidence in the parking fines system, and it undermines confidence within the wider community if certain groups are not paying their fines. It is a serious issue, and I understand that. If there is more I can say, I will write to the noble Lord.

Criminal Justice System: Capacity

Debate between Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede and Lord Bellingham

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I have just consulted with my noble friend Lord Timpson and I can reassure the noble Lord that we do have enough tags for the process which we are embarking on. I should also mention that both my noble friend Lord Timpson and I were fitted with a sobriety tag for a while to see whether it worked, and I can assure the noble Lord that it does work.

The noble Lord’s opening point was about more pressure on the police. That is right; there will be some more pressure on the police and also on the Probation Service and some social services such as housing. The philosophy underlying the Government’s SDS40 approach rather than the previous approach is planning down the whole pipeline, including people who will regrettably reoffend and how to deal with them. By managing this with a more planned approach, we hope and expect that we will reduce the chances of reoffending.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, can I refer the Minister to the recent quite appalling race riots that took place during the summer? I think everyone agrees that those involved in violence and incitement to violence, including online incitement to violence, deserved extremely harsh punishment. But the Minister will be aware that many of these people had no previous convictions and posed no immediate threat to the public and yet nearly all were remanded in custody, thus putting greater pressure on the Prison Service. Can the Minister comment on this point?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I became a magistrate just under 20 years ago and at that point there were 30,000 magistrates in England and Wales. There are now about 14,000 and we are trying to get the number back up to 18,000. So, I accept the point the noble Baroness made on that. The other point is that in the youth court, magistrates have powers to sentence up to two years—I was a youth magistrate as well. The change is important and significant, but it is not such a big step change that magistrates will not be able to handle it in any way. I am confident that they will be able to handle it, and the backlogs in the magistrates’ courts are nowhere near as bad as those in the Crown Court.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, may I seek some further clarification from the Minister? I asked him about remanding in custody and, having worked in the criminal justice system as a barrister, I am well aware that obviously the sentencing is up to the judges or magistrates. However, remanding in custody is not meant as a punishment; it is meant to protect the public.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

Of course, I accept the point. The objective is not to change the number of people who are remanded in custody, because obviously that is a judicial decision, but to reduce the time those who are remanded in custody spend in custody. If we can do that through reducing the backlog, that will be a desirable effect. We think that some 2,000 days of Crown Court sittings could be saved by this change to the rules of magistrates’ sentencing powers.