Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Lord Pickles and Lyn Brown
Mr Pickles
It is probably a good thing that we have kept this reasonably simple. It is about getting people back into work, reducing the amount of antisocial behaviour and getting children back into school. My right hon. Friend is right to suggest that the programme has been a success, and I am also grateful for the support of the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) in this regard. We will expand it, and we hope that it will change the lives of lots of people.
Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)
The troubled families programme should be aimed at families who are facing multiple challenges and who have the most complex needs. That is something that we would support. The Secretary of State asserts that the programme is succeeding, but how can he justify that when, even on his own tests, many of the families he claims to have “turned round” are still committing crimes, their children are still missing school and their family members are not working? Indeed, some of the families he claims to have turned round have been nowhere near the programme.
Mr Pickles
I do not understand the hon. Lady’s hostility. This has been a very successful programme, and we have worked closely with Labour authorities. There is a lagging authority, however. I understand that her experience might be different, in that Newham has identified 985 families and is working with 90% of them, but has turned round only 14% of them, compared with the national average of 33%. Let us be clear: we are not turning these good folks into model citizens—these are very difficult families—but if we can get the children into school for three successive terms, get other family members into work for three months and reduce the amount of antisocial behaviour, it is better for those people and for their neighbours. It is also a lot better than the rather smug attitude being taken by some Opposition Members.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Lord Pickles and Lyn Brown(10 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Pickles
Sure, and the important thing is that we have one social worker dealing with one family as a whole, not a series of social workers dealing with different members of the family. That has been very impressive. I have toured the country and seen a number of the schemes in action, and I have been very pleased with the level of co-operation.
Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)
I fear that the Secretary of State is in denial, because his programme actually causes a reduction, not a cessation, in the problems for which the families have been put on the programme. Is it not the truth that many of the families that he says have been turned around are still truanting and engaging in antisocial behaviour? How on earth does he justify the fact that many local authorities are failing to monitor those families after they come off the programme? Is it not the truth that he is scared of real scrutiny of the claims he makes?
Mr Pickles
I invite the hon. Lady to come to my office and talk with Louise Casey. I do not think there is a scintilla of truth in anything the hon. Lady said, and I greatly regret the breach in bipartisanship towards the programme. Our books are open, so she should come in to see them. I have to tell her, in the nicest possible way, that she should put up or shut up.
Growth and Infrastructure Bill
Debate between Lord Pickles and Lyn Brown
Mr Pickles
My right hon. Friend recognises that this represents a boost to industry. [Interruption.] I am sorry if the idea of helping local builders and do-it-yourselfers and people who earn their own living is regarded as unimportant.
Mr Pickles
I feel that, somehow, I am returning to confrontational type, and I must avoid that, so let me say the honeyed words, and then I will consider giving way to the hon. Lady.
Notwithstanding my comments on this amendment, I appreciate that there is the separate issue of the detail of the Government’s planned reforms to permitted development rights. I am grieved and distressed that Lords and Members—on both sides of the House—who I would normally look to for advice, guidance and support on planning issues have concerns, so we have listened to them. The Planning Minister and my other ministerial colleague, the right hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster), have met colleagues from this House to hear their views, and I believe that even at this late hour we can establish a broad consensus on these practical reforms. We will listen carefully to the debate this afternoon—this is, of course, the first opportunity the House has had to debate the matter—reflect on all the points raised and consider in detail the representations made in the consultation on the secondary legislation.
I can announce today that in the spirit of consensus we will introduce a revised approach to the contentious question of permitted development rights for home extensions when the Bill returns to the Lords. If we cannot persuade the other House, the issue will return to the Commons next week so that hon. Members can debate and vote further. Given the discussions I have had with colleagues who have concerns, I believe that the problem is eminently bridgeable. I would like the opportunity to build that bridge.
Lyn Brown
I am genuinely grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, but had I heard his words from a Minister on my own side when I sat on the Government Benches, I would have thought that they were wriggle words—I would not have been persuaded. Will his ideas about what might be changed address concerns in my constituency about beds in sheds?
Mr Pickles
I cannot imagine any circumstances in which permitted development rights would allow beds in sheds. I politely remind the hon. Lady that this Government took decisive action on beds in sheds after years of neglect from Labour.