Contact Tracing: Personal Privacy

Lord Patel Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, we are currently assessing the value of a specific Isle of Wight update and whether it would be worth while before we move on to issuing the full app. When we have finished that assessment, I would be glad to answer the questions asked by my noble friend.

[Lord Patel (CB) [V]]

My Lords, we need the tracking app to succeed. For this to happen, as has already been mentioned, the Government need to make sure that they are honest and transparent with the public to gain their trust. Can the Minister say when the Government will publish the performance data from the Isle of Wight trial? Further, can he confirm that the Government have been following their own code of conduct for data-driven technologies in healthcare and in the development of the app? For example, principle 4 refers to transparency and principle 10 refers to commercial models. Can he tell us what process will determine secondary uses of the data?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, I can confirm that the Government have been following the code of conduct, as the noble Lord suggested. I am also hungry to publish the performance data. I can confirm that, so far, there have been 73,365 users of the Isle of Wight app, 53,490 of whom were on the Isle of Wight. The user experience has been largely benign, and we look forward to publishing fuller technical and user details shortly.

Covid-19: Cancelled Medical Operations

Lord Patel Excerpts

Wednesday 10th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

We do not seem to be able to hear the noble Lord, Lord Patel.

[Lord Patel (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I have unmuted my microphone and I hope that my voice is coming through. I am sorry for the delay.

As the Minister will know, several million patients are on waiting lists for surgery. Given the increased levels of hygiene safety that will be required, it is inevitable that productivity will be down. This means that there will be a need for the prioritisation of cases. Does he agree that the professional organisations should draw up advisory guidelines for clinicians, rather than leaving it to the individuals?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

The noble Lord may be interested to know that, frustratingly, waiting lists have gone down rather than up, from 4.42 million in February to 4.32 million in March. This is an indication of people not coming forward for operations that they may need, and it is something that we are keen to address. However, we are putting the decision-making on how to handle the lists into the hands of local clinicians, who will use a combination of clinical need and waiting list times to make their decisions.

Covid-19: Response

Lord Patel Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend makes an incredibly valuable point and I completely share her concerns, but I will share two important points, if I may. First, we cannot avoid the fact that this disease has a 14-day incubation period. It is extremely tough to protect our borders from infection by a disease that may not be detectable, even at our borders, during that period. Secondly, while the peak is raging, additional infection from foreign visitors makes only a marginal difference, whereas at this stage, when we have worked so hard to get the prevalence down and reduce infectiousness, the threat of new infection from foreign visitors is higher. That is an irony that the CMO is fully aware of, but it is entirely right that we have brought in these measures. They are constantly under review. The impact on tourism and other industries is hugely regretted, but to rid the country of Covid they are proportionate.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. Before I ask my question, let me say this: with the greatest respect to the Minister, if he thinks that no degree of racism exists in the NHS, I suggest that he speaks to those people from ethnic minorities who work in the NHS and see how they feel. I accept his comment that examination of what has happened hitherto is for another day, but we have to examine the current strategy for suppressing the virus, which we have not done successfully. In this regard, the latest initiative is the Government’s test and trace scheme. A great degree of transparency and trust will be required to make this a success. Can I ask the Minister: what matrix will the Government use to demonstrate the success of the project?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I bow to the experience and wisdom of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, particularly in the matter of racism in the NHS. I would not for a moment suggest that there is no racism at all in the NHS—or any large organisation—and I deeply regret any bad experiences he may have had. The accusation, however, was of structural racism in the NHS, and that is what I push back against. The NHS as an organisation is not racist, and I reject the suggestion that it is.

As for the matrix of success, that is an extremely perceptive question, and a bloody tough one—exactly the kind I would expect from the noble Lord. To summarise, it is to reduce R: if we can get a lid on R0 and stop the index case from spreading the disease to more people, then Test and Trace will have succeeded.

Covid-19: Testing

Lord Patel Excerpts

Thursday 14th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend Lady Rawlings is entirely right: we all have an important role to play. There is good evidence that personal tracing by individuals of contacts within their networks has a powerful role to play in isolating those who might have been in contact with the virus. Defeating this virus will be the responsibility of everyone in the community; we cannot rely just on digital apps and central databases.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, what evidence do the Government use to calculate the value of R0?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord will know that we have set up one of the most ambitious surveys, conducted by the ONS, to study on a weekly basis a large number of viral and serological tests. Those are used by statisticians to understand both the prevalence and the spread of the disease. Figures for that are emerging—we now have three weeks-worth of figures. They are being published regularly and I would be glad to send the noble Lord a link to the relevant data.

Covid-19

Lord Patel Excerpts

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord raises an issue that I remember was raised during discussions on the emergency Coronavirus Bill. It is my understanding that a generous and open-hearted view is taken on the treatment of those with irregular status in the UK. Now is clearly not the time to try to put in prison those who have irregular status. The precise arrangements escape me, but I would be glad to write to the noble Lord with a precise description.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned in his Statement the introduction of app-based tracing of contacts, which others have already mentioned. At the same time, I assume that the Government will introduce serology testing and expand the current molecular testing. When will the Government publish the protocol for implementation of this, and how will the public be informed?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Patel, will be interested to read the details of our ONS serology tests that have begun earlier this week, which will be published in mid-May. These are surveillance tests and will provide us with the information that we need to understand how the epidemic is developing. At the right time we will also bring in mass serology testing. However, as the noble Lord will be aware, when prevalence rates are around 3%, 4% or 5%, as they seem likely to be, serology tests for managing the epidemic are not relevant yet.

Covid-19: Personal Protective Equipment

Lord Patel Excerpts

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

I reassure my noble friend that we have been in daily and constant contact with the Turkish Government, who have behaved with good faith and in a supportive fashion throughout all our dealings. We are thankful to them for their involvement.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that we have not done well when it comes to the delivery and availability of PPE? As yet, nobody has said sorry to anybody for that. Does he think that somebody should? If I may repeat and slightly rephrase the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, at the door of which Cabinet Minister does the buck stop?

[Lord Bethell]

I am not sure that I agree with the analysis of the noble Lord. No one could have anticipated the huge demand for PPE not just in the NHS and care homes but in other workplaces. This is a global phenomenon. The chase for PPE is difficult in all countries around the world. Britain is not alone in struggling with this. I do not think now is the time for apologies; now is the time for delivering PPE, and that is what this Government are focused on doing.

Covid-19: Removal of Restrictions

Lord Patel Excerpts

Tuesday 21st April 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

Lord Mackay of Clashfern. No? Okay, we will go on. Lord Patel.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

Noble Lords cannot see me, but I hope they can hear me. One of the five conditions the Government have set themselves before any changes will be made to the current lockdown is that they will have to be confident that there will not be a second wave of infection. What scientific evidence will the Government need in support of this decision, and what role will population-based serology testing play in this decision?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Patel, asks an incredibly perceptive question. The ultimate decisions will be made by the CMO, who, as noble Lords know, has enormous experience in this exact area. Serology tests play an extremely important role in this by giving an indication of the number of antibodies there are, whether people have a degree of immunity and therefore a sense of how far the virus has spread through the community. However, we are aware of reports that there are recurrences of the virus in people who have emerged and recovered. That creates a great sense of concern around our serology tests.

Coronavirus

Lord Patel Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord asks an important question about the critical element of the research phase of our plan, and we have announced £46 million of additional funding for this area. Britain’s scientists are providing a leading contribution to the international effort. That effort is being conducted in an extremely transparent, open source fashion, with important details on genomic material being shared widely and openly. My understanding is that it is being done in a spirit of public collaboration.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that what we have learned so far from the outbreaks in other countries, and even the small number of deaths in this country, is that the vulnerable groups are people aged over 65—more men than women—and those with underlying conditions? What is the Government’s strategy to protect the elderly and reduce their risk of getting this disease?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is entirely right. The CMO’s effort is now to identify those groups who require the greatest priority of assistance. We are not sure, and the CMO has not declared, at exactly what age that should start. He is considering publication of the exact details of the priorities in future. It seems that it is not necessarily gender-specific but that the state of your immune system is the key driver. In some areas, of course, men have very bad habits when it comes to things such as drinking and smoking. The CMO has made it clear that if you want to do one thing to avoid getting the virus, it is giving up smoking.

Wuhan Coronavirus

Lord Patel Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

As ever, my noble friend is astute on this issue. Contact tracing has been hugely effective, particularly for the 1,466 passengers and 95 staff who arrived in the UK on direct flights from Wuhan between 10 and 24 January. All those have now passed through the incubation period and none of them was a confirmed case. Of the remaining cases that we have found, a number are linked to contact tracing. We should be very proud of the effectiveness of our system.

On the question of antivirals, work and research is ongoing in regard to a particular HIV retroviral which has been used in this measure. That is being considered. There are three projects which aim to advance the vaccine candidates into clinical testing as quickly as possible. We are also looking at some correspondence from both diagnostic kit manufacturers and potential end users, and we are considering whether we can also improve the diagnostic kit.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to correct the former Secretary of State for Health. This virus is RNA in its genetic makeup. H1N1—the previous pandemic that we were worried about when we stockpiled the antivirals—had a DNA genetic make-up. Some antivirals work better with DNA than RNA, although the Minister was correct to say that there are several antivirals currently being tested to see whether they will work against the coronavirus. As far as a vaccine is concerned, it takes a long time to develop a vaccine; when you develop one, it takes even longer to see whether it is effective.

Last time we discussed this, I said that the Government were taking a proportionate action to contain the virus in the United Kingdom. I believe that to be so even today. However, we might be on the knife edge of a pandemic. If a pandemic is declared, the whole attitude to how we contain this changes. It becomes much more draconian, to stop the movement of people, isolate the index cases and identify the contacts. Currently, asking the Members of this House to wear masks would only make the public panic and ask why we are protecting ourselves when they are not being protected. It can be a good measure, but we have to wait to see how things develop. I would like to hear reassurance from the Minister that there are plans in place, so that if this becomes pandemic, the Government will take the draconian action that is required.

We are fortunate that, apart from the Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty, who is a first-rate epidemiologist, we have Professor Piot, who discovered the Ebola virus, and Jeremy Farrar, chief executive of the Wellcome Trust. They have better knowledge on containing pandemics than anyone else in the world; I hope the Government will use their expertise.

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

The noble Lord has demonstrated, far more eloquently than me, why we have more expertise in public health, and in particular in infectious diseases, than many other nations; we of course share our expertise through the WHO with Professor Piot, Professor Jeremy Farrar and our own Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty. We operate using the best scientific evidence and advice from SAGE, which is currently advising the risk level of moderate. We keep that under constant review and are not complacent in any way. Through the preparations that we are putting through the NHS and all other parts of the system, we will be prepared for whatever situations might emerge should there be more sustained transmission in the UK. We will take the measures necessary to protect public health. The steps that we have taken so far have been proportionate and appropriate; they also demonstrate that the Government will act as necessary to make sure that we protect public health.

Coronavirus

Lord Patel Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

The noble Baroness has rightly raised this issue with me before. She is quite right that flu can and should be managed much more effectively in the community and by individuals. I think we have had an effective flu campaign this year. The flu vaccine has been offered to 25 million people. We have also extended the flu programme this year to children in year 6 to improve herd immunity and drive up its impact. We are seeing the number of those with flu declining, so we are starting to see some improvement. However, I completely recognise the noble Baroness’s point about public health lessons and improving public education on the management of infectious conditions, which we live with every winter, not just when we have an infectious situation such as this. I thank the noble Baroness for an important question.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, in my view the measures the Government have taken are balanced so as not to cause a panic and unnecessary alarm. The important thing, though, is that the Government remain on top of developments. If the virus mutates and spreads rapidly from human to human, it will require much more draconian measures to be taken.

It has been reported that the virus transmits from human to human and to people who have not been in China, although the numbers are small. An index or measure of human-to-human transfer is known as R0. It currently stands at about 1 to 2. If it increases, that means the virus is spreading faster. Sequencing of all the known cases so far suggests that the virus has not mutated. It remains 99.98% the same sequence, including in the two patients known in the United Kingdom. I hope the Government have a strategy in place to keep on top of developments and that they will take the steps required to stop the spread.

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford]

I thank the noble Lord. He is right that there is a global effort to keep on top of the sequencing of the virus to track any evolution of it. As he said, the indications are that the virus has not evolved in the past month, which is encouraging. The rate of transmission is as reported. That means that the infection control measures in place, which are based on clinical evidence and the data, are proportionate and appropriate. Combined with the public health advice that has come out and the contributions each of us can make as individuals to manage the spread of infection, we believe that this is the responsible and appropriate route. However, as the noble Lord said, we will keep the developing situation under a close eye so that we can respond quickly and nimbly as the situation goes forward.