Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Baroness Taylor of Bolton

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, I wish to reinforce what has just been said and emphasise the all-party nature of this amendment. As the noble Lord, Lord Lee, has said, people with significant experience in the Ministry of Defence have attached their names to it and it has been tabled it in an attempt to be helpful to Ministers in that department. Several of us have stood at the government Dispatch Box and have had to refuse amendments even though they were helpful, and defend the Government’s position in so doing. We are considering a wide group of amendments and I can well understand that the Minister might feel that he has to resist an inclination to respond favourably in all cases. However, this amendment is different from all the others and constitutes probably the minimum that the Government should seek to do, as the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, said. It would protect Ministers in the MoD. If Secretaries of State are not responsible for their input into the report, we will have second-hand information. Although I am sure that there is no lack of trust between Ministers, it ought to be clear where responsibility lies. This mechanism would enable a better buy-in from other government departments. We have made significant progress in that regard in recent years but we need to consolidate and work on it. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will look favourably on this amendment.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, as someone from the ranks, as it were, not having been a Defence Minister, I add my voice to those of former Defence Ministers and speak to Amendment 10 standing in my name. Other amendments in the group concern important matters such as who should prepare reports. My amendment concerns the more mundane but nevertheless important matter of a covenant with our Armed Forces which must note what improvement has been made to the dire condition of too many of the 44,000 forces family homes in the UK.

As noble Lords will remember, the housing was sold off but the MoD is responsible for repairs and maintenance. That is not necessarily a good deal. The MoD has not had the will or the funds to keep many of these properties in a good state of repair. It is clear to me from the inquiries I have made that the coalition Government accept that this problem goes back many years and recognise that something needs to be done. I also accept that in these times of cuts and reductions in expenditure there are unlikely to be sufficient funds radically to improve the existing housing stock. I hope that the purpose of my amendment is simple; namely, to think outside the box. If the MoD does not have the funds to carry out this work—I am told that it does not—and if the freeholder will not do the work because the properties were sold off to a housing association, we should look at other funding streams, as is the case with social housing in the public sector. The amendment is meant to be helpful in terms of directing thought towards other methods.

The amendment asks for a report on the progress being made between the Ministry of Defence and housing associations to improve the accommodation for servicepeople. I am sure that this is not an original thought, but I envisage a round table of housing associations active in garrison towns to build new homes for service personnel or to renovate existing stock to a high standard. A few minutes ago, at Oral Questions in the Chamber, people were reminiscing about World War II. For people of my age who were born during that war, the saying was “homes for heroes”, but I am afraid that we do not nowadays have “a fair deal for squaddies”.