NHS: Dangerous Waste and Body Parts Disposal

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Wednesday 10th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord is quite right. There are, of course, contractual obligations; the point is that those obligations have not been fulfilled. That is one reason why the Environment Agency is now pursuing a criminal investigation against the firm.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

Will the Minister give us some information? Much clinical waste is highly infectious and therefore very dangerous; it needs to be incinerated very quickly. Will he tell us exactly how it is stored and where it is stored, and will he assure us that there is absolutely no danger of very infectious agents escaping into the surroundings?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is quite right to highlight this issue. As I said when repeating the Statement, the items that we are talking about are stored securely and I am assured that there is no risk to public health from the stockpiling. Clearly there is a requirement to dispose of them; this is a contractual obligation of the company, which it has not fulfilled. That is why we have entered into this situation.

Abortion: Misoprostol

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I am aware of the opinion in that judicial review. It is worth pointing out that there is still uncertainty about the legal position. This is why we will watch the developments in Scotland carefully and proceed cautiously. It would be wrong of me to prejudge either the opinions that come from the court or indeed any evidence if this scheme does get up and running in Scotland.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, up to nine weeks, it is perfectly safe for a woman to take the pills for a medical abortion? It is much better and more comfortable for her to have the consequences at home. Does he also agree that this would mean each woman would have to make half the number of appointments to get a medical abortion—a huge saving for the health service?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The importance here is making sure that, under the auspices of the Act, women have access to safe and legal abortion, and that is what they have a right to do. An important point here is that, the earlier these abortions happen, the safer they are. The proportion of abortions under 10 weeks has risen from 68% to 81% in the last 10 years. At the moment, both courses of treatment for early medical abortion should take place in a clinical setting approved by the Secretary of State.

Health: Pelvic Mesh Implants

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord speaks with great experience. Obviously, a number of procedures are involved, and NICE is now looking at extra procedures to provide the guidance. It does look like it is not the right thing to do in cases of prolapse, but it can be a very successful course of treatment for other conditions. It is important to take a differentiated approach.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister share with me a sense of puzzlement that this subject was brought to the House in the first place? I find it very odd given that we have royal colleges and NICE with people to assess the efficacy of particular treatments. Many treatments, both medical and surgical, carry a risk of complications. Are they all going to be brought to the House of Lords for discussion?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

Our job in this House is to scrutinise the decisions that are made in our publicly funded health services. I think that it is absolutely right that we do scrutinise these issues and make sure that the care being provided in this country adheres to the highest and safest standards.

Social Care

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Thursday 7th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness put it beautifully in saying that the people we are talking about, who are on the receiving end of care, need to be treated with dignity and honour. I wholeheartedly agree with her.

I will separate integrated care into older people and working-age adults, as the noble Baroness did. On older people—and on health and care in general—I encourage her again to look at the five-year forward view and the plan for integration. In the recent Budget, we funded more than £200 million of capital programmes to help move a handful of local areas to what are called accountable care systems. That is where you look at the health of a population, which is quite an important step forward towards integrated care. I agree with her that that is not necessarily the everyday experience.

On disabled working-age adults, we may talk about the ageing and growing population but I believe that they are the fastest-growing group of care users. There is of course excellent work going on at the local authority level; I had the privilege many years ago to chair a special school in Wandsworth and saw the fantastic work it did with a peripatetic autism service there. But I know that there is huge variation, which is why the parallel programme of work that I talked about is so important.

Finally, the noble Baroness talked about hard-to-reach communities, and I could not agree more on that. One of the ways of reaching them is to engage with those who give voice to those communities. I would be delighted to discuss that with her, to make sure that we are listening to every voice we can as we move ahead.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, way back in the early 1980s when I was working as a community doctor, I was also chair of social services in my borough. The main topic of conversation and angst then was how to combine health and social care budgets so that patients could receive proper care. How many more decades do we have to wait for this country to get its act together and do something about it? Other countries in Europe have good social care; why cannot we?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

First, I think we do have good social care in this country. That was the CQC’s finding, and it is important for us to recognise that we are building from a position of strength. Secondly, I agree with the noble Baroness on her point about integration. It has taken too long and that is what we are all focused on doing. I hope that she will join in this process so that we can build a true consensus as we move ahead.

Maternal Safety Strategy

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I am delighted to be able to respond to my noble friend, who, probably more than anyone else, has really led the charge in this area. I pay tribute to her for her work on better births, as I do to Sir Cyril Chantler, her deputy. She is right that patient safety is the golden thread that runs through all the work that the Secretary of State has led, and she is right to highlight that we have safer services. The changes that we are making, together with bringing forward the “halve it” ambition, will save 4,000 babies’ lives, which is a great prize.

With regard to my noble friend’s questions, the endorsement of the HSIB is very welcome. Some months ago I organised a briefing for noble Lords with Keith Conradi, who runs it, and I shall be very happy to organise another one. It is a very interesting organisation with an interesting methodology that has proved incredibly effective in the airline industry, where Mr Conradi comes from.

On RRR, I appreciate my noble friend’s concerns about the timing and I will certainly look into whether it is possible to bring forward its implementation. As she knows, there are some issues around governance and how it will operate that mean that we need to tread carefully, but I shall certainly take that into consideration because we want to get the scheme up and running as soon as possible.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I too declare an interest. Like the noble Baroness opposite, I am an honorary fellow of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. Of course I welcome this investigation that the Government have announced, but I am a little worried that at the end of the investigation we shall hear the usual phrase “lessons will be learned”. From past experience, lessons are never learned, especially in the health service, because the main cause of the difficulty and of these babies dying is a shortage of midwives and a lack of staff. When will the Government seriously address funding in all sectors of the health service but, on this occasion, especially midwifery?

Sustainability and Transformation Plans

Debate between Lord O'Shaughnessy and Baroness Tonge

Thursday 26th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Baroness for making that point. The purpose of NHS England’s review of the STPs is to make sure that they account for all the priorities set out in the Five Year Forward View. Clearly, that involves end-of-life care, and NHS England will work hard to make sure that it is properly reflected.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, a very interesting and good report has been published this week on pilot schemes in three London boroughs to treat the effects of female genital mutilation and prevent it occurring in future generations. We have already heard from one clinic in that pilot project that it will have to close at the end of March through lack of funding. Will Minister assure us that such projects, which are vital for many women in our communities, will continue in future?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising that issue, which I was not aware of. I would be very happy to write to her on it.