Allowances

Lord Newby Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, I too declare an interest as I come to this House every week from Scotland. It astounded me from the moment I was introduced that there was no such scheme to compensate for overnight accommodation, so I too welcome the report.

I have one question. I do not understand why Members of this House who travel from the various parts of the UK should be subject to different rules from those for Members of the other place. The overnight rating, while welcome, is considerably less than Members of the other place receive. The kind of accommodation to which it applies is not as extensive as IPSA sets out for MPs. I do not really understand why those of us who come to this House from other areas should be treated differently from MPs.

I remind your Lordships that this is an allowance that can be claimed, and there are many colleagues who choose not to claim it. I would hope that it would be claimed only by those of us for whom it really makes a difference to our attendance here, rather than by those who seek to claim it just because they can. I thank my noble friend for the report, but I do not understand why we have not followed the IPSA guidance.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches very much welcome this scheme. I would say to the noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, that we do not want to go down the IPSA route on anything. Everything is different, and once we start trying to draw comparisons, we get into real difficulty.

It is very important that this House is as diverse as possible. It is heavily skewed towards London and the south-east. Money is not the only reason, but we should be doing whatever we can to ensure that everybody, wherever they live and whatever their circumstances, can participate.

I fully accept that the scheme is not perfect, but it is better. Nobody I have spoken to has come up with a scheme that everybody would agree is perfect. This scheme will relieve real problems for a significant number of Members who, in some cases, have been out of pocket by coming to your Lordships’ House. This is clearly not acceptable, and the scheme goes a long way towards dealing with that. From these Benches we heartily welcome it.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Leader of the House for bringing this forward today. He has heard the mood of the House, and it is warmly welcomed. I also put on record our thanks to the chairs of the groups and the convenor. They have consulted around the House about the difficulties caused for those who travel some distance to get here and stay overnight. I am grateful to them for their efforts in putting forward a scheme.

This scheme recognises three things. First, when the rules on the initial daily payment were changed, it was not kept in line with inflation for around 10 years, meaning that it fell behind what was reasonably expected when it was set up. At the same time, the cost of hotels and other accommodation increased significantly above inflation during that period, meaning that those paying for accommodation are paying a significantly greater proportion of the daily allowance than they were when the scheme was set up.

To answer the noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, the difference between us and the Members of the House of Commons is that they are salaried employees, and we are not. We receive a daily allowance for days on which we attend and are here working. So, there is a difference in the arrangements for the two Houses.

The scheme also recognises that this is a contribution towards the costs, which fluctuate enormously; in that sense, it is fair to all colleagues. It also recognises the work of your Lordships’ House. Too often we talk about allowances in the abstract, but allowances enable Members of this House to fulfil their responsibilities. Members who have to dash off early to catch the train home because they cannot find a hotel within their price range are disadvantaged and cannot play a proper role. The bottom line is that we need to ensure that the House can do its work properly. I am grateful to the Leader of the House and to the chairs of the groups, who, as I said, have done a lot of work in producing something which is fair and reasonable for all. It has the support of these Benches.