Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham

Report stage & 3rd reading
Friday 24th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham]

My Lords, I will speak to both amendments in my name. I declare my interest as a beneficiary of the funds of the Church Commissioners, being in receipt of a stipend. I am also a leaseholder of a flat in Bristol.

I beg the House’s indulgence briefly to return to the impact that this Bill will have on seven charities. I do not wish to unduly detain the House for longer than strictly necessary, but this legislation as drafted will have a significant financial effect on the operational ability of the charities.

My amendments have the support of my right reverend friend the Bishop of Manchester and the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, who are unfortunately unable to attend the House today but raised similar issues at Second Reading and in Committee. We submitted our concerns to every consultation and debate before the Bill arrived, and have done so since. We none the less thank the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, who has given very diligent service to the House, particularly for her work on this Bill. We thank the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, who has been supporting the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and is stepping in today in somewhat challenging circumstances.

I wish to put on record that these two amendments serve to register the ongoing concern that I and others have and seek to press for clarity and reassurance. This has been requested in meetings but, despite the best efforts of the ministerial team and the department, it is still not sufficient. My right reverend friend the Bishop of Manchester wrote to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, last night when the Bill was announced as returning and I hope the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, has seen this.

My right referend friend and I unreservedly support the Bill’s primary aim of making leasehold a simpler and fairer tenure for all. However, we are concerned about the unintended consequences, in particular on a small number of charities which, despite being fairly few in number, deliver a large amount of public good. These charities collect receipts from lease extensions which fund their charitable work and which are put in jeopardy by this Bill. Some of the charities implicated stand to lose as much as £3 million per annum in distributable funds. These are not small figures. I fear that, for some of those charities affected—the John Lyon’s Charity will lose £4 million per annum, one-quarter of its total income, most of which goes towards supporting children and youth projects—these losses will be considerable.

The Church Commissioners stand to lose £1 million per annum in distributable funds. This will hit their discretionary spend, including the strategic development fund, which supports some of the more deprived areas of the country. This is particularly close to my heart, as my diocese of Southwell and Nottingham has received four significant disbursements from this fund, benefitting particular areas of higher deprivation where there were important opportunities to develop work among children and young people. These funds equip churches to grow and enhance their contribution to community-building initiatives, especially working in partnership with local schools. The transformation that that brings is of considerable social and public benefit. For example, there has been pioneering and successful regeneration work across seven estates to the north of the city.

It is work like this that the charities I am talking about are particularly well placed to deliver. When we discussed this issue in Committee, there was support from various corners of the House that charities should not be out of pocket as a result of this Bill. Nobody wants to see the worthwhile work of charities threatened, particularly in a time of ever-increasing need.

My right reverend friend the Bishop of Manchester and I had hoped that there would be sufficient time in the remaining stages to agree a solution to deliver a fairer deal for leaseholders without unduly disadvantaging charities. I regret but understand that wash-up has got in the way of that. While I have no desire to hold up proceedings, I hope that the Minister will look seriously at accepting the amendment offered by way of a mutually acceptable solution.

The amendments in my name seek to mitigate the financial impact of this Bill on charity freeholders. Amendment 20 would entitle charity freeholders to compensation, which would mean that they would be no worse off due to the passage of the Bill in terms of marriage and hope value. Amendment 32 would ensure that, in setting deferment rates, the Secretary of State would need to have due regard to the income of charity freeholders, taking into account their incomes and public benefit, just as the rates will take into account the needs and wishes of leaseholders.

These rates are potentially make or break for some of these charities, while all support the aim of making it clearer and simpler to extend a lease. However, in setting these rates, the Secretary of State needs to consider the potential impact on beneficiaries of registered charities. The Bill gives the Secretary of State the power to set, change and periodically review the deferment rates. How do the Government intend to set these rates? Will the Minister commit to consult charities about these rates to ensure that they can continue their good work?

It should be noted that, despite our support on these Benches for the concept of the Bill, in our view it does not deliver the Government’s aim of ending the tenure of leasehold or present a compelling alternative. Commonhold was a wholly positive development but, as noted in this House several times, it has failed to take off and nothing in this Bill will help it to catch on. My right reverend friend the Bishop of Manchester and I are particularly concerned that the Bill will make life difficult for charities and their beneficiaries without really delivering an improved system of tenures. I therefore respectfully request that consideration be given to the adoption of these amendments.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for not previously intervening on this Bill. I have no leasehold interests but, given that I will support the right reverend Prelate’s amendment, I should declare that, until very recently, my son sung in the excellent cathedral choir at Southwell Minster.

It is very difficult for the Government to argue against the point raised by the right reverend Prelate. It cannot be right that a Conservative Government should impact on the revenue of charities in this way. The seven charities he listed, in particular the John Lyon’s Charity, are fundamentally reliant on the income derived from these sources. Insufficient scrutiny has been given to the efforts made to protect that income. Similarly, the vital funds paid to the Church Commissioners from their income from these types of sources need to be protected.

All this appears to be symptomatic of the lack of scrutiny consequent on the driving of this measure through wash-up. I share the concern expressed in earlier groups by my noble friends Lord Robathan, Lord Howard, Lord Jackson and Lord Moylan and the noble Lord, Lord Hacking. I also share the concern that legislating in haste will result in our experiencing difficulties in the Strasbourg jurisdiction. While my noble friend the Minister reassured us on the last group that the Minister had seen fit to certify that, in his view, these measures are compliant with Article 1 of the first protocol of the European convention, as my noble friend Lord Jackson identified, there is a wealth of case law in Strasbourg identifying the protection of property rights, particularly in relation to charities.

I find myself strongly in agreement with the right reverend Prelate, which is a very happy and unusual situation. I commend his amendment to the Front Bench. I conclude by praising my noble friend the Minister, who has picked up this unfortunate googly at the last minute. The right reverend Prelate’s amendments are worthy of considerable consideration.