Pub Companies

Debate between Lord Murphy of Torfaen and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 12th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) for securing the debate, and to the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) for the tremendous speech he gave and for the work that he has done over recent years.

The work of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee has been a model for what a Select Committee should do, not only under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West, but under that of the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff). The Committee is absolutely right to point out the inadequacies of the pub companies system, and in trying to bring the Government to account and asking them to do what is right. The report, which I have read a number of times, shows the tenacity, doggedness and hard work that members of the Committee put into the investigation. My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West is right that landlords and tenants across the country will be interested to see what happens at the end of the debate and to hear Members’ contributions.

[Kevin Brennan]

The hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths) said that pubcos were drinking at the last chance saloon. Given how long the Select Committee has been working on this matter and how long that metaphor has been used, does it not seem that the last chance saloon is somewhere where time is never called?

[Paul Murphy]

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. He and I have drunk in many pubs together over the years, and understand the importance of that.

I entirely support the recommendations and conclusions of the Select Committee, including a statutory code of practice, a free-of-tie option and an open market rent review with an independent adjudicator. What comes through in the report is the frustration and loss of patience of Committee members with the pub companies. I hasten to add that we are talking not about our family brewers, such as Brains in south Wales, which are respected and good employers with good public houses, but about companies that lack transparency in what they do, and did not impress the members of the Select Committee when they gave evidence. A cursory glance at the evidence given to the Committee shows how the pub companies tried to evade and wriggle out of the important issues.

Welsh Grand Committee (Scrutiny)

Debate between Lord Murphy of Torfaen and Kevin Brennan

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)]

This debate was called because we have come to a point of crisis for the Welsh Grand Committee. I have always found the Secretary of State to be a reasonable and courteous person, but I have no idea what has entered her head, because on this matter she has betrayed a stubbornness that I find most uncharacteristic and unwelcome. The debate is about how the Welsh Grand Committee runs itself and is organised. My experience over five years as Secretary of State for Wales on two separate occasions was that the decision to hold a Welsh Grand Committee was wholly in the hands of the Secretary of State. Therefore, the decision not to hold such a Committee lies entirely in the hands of the current Secretary of State.

There was never any question but that if there was consensus among Welsh Members of Parliament, a Welsh Grand Committee would be held. The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) will remember that when I was Secretary of State, we consulted him on the subject, date and number of Welsh Grand Committees. Never once in my experience did I refuse a request or an understanding of consensus to have a Welsh Grand Committee. To my knowledge, this is the first time in its history that a Secretary of State has stubbornly refused to hold a Welsh Grand Committee to discuss important matters.

[Kevin Brennan]

My right hon. Friend is right. I checked with one of his predecessors, the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood), who was happy to confirm that he would never have turned down a request for a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee. There is now nostalgia in Wales for the right hon. Member for Wokingham. [Laughter.]

[Paul Murphy]

Not on my part. However, my hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Whatever the political persuasion of the Secretary of State, there was no refusal to hold a Grand Committee on an important issue. When I held office, 21 meetings of the Welsh Grand Committee were called to deal with a large number of issues, including major constitutional matters. I cannot understand for one second what entered the head of the Secretary of State when she decided not to hold a meeting of the Committee.