Road Vehicles (Type-Approval) (Amendment) Regulations 2025
Debate between Lord Murphy of Torfaen and Baroness Suttie(6 days, 20 hours ago)
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Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)
My Lords, I was not intending to speak, but it has been a fascinating short debate on a hugely serious issue. My noble friend Lady Ritchie mentioned that there were three reports on the Windsor Framework that the Government are currently looking at: the one that I produced some months ago, the report of the committee of your Lordships’ House on Northern Ireland, and that of the Independent Monitoring Panel. I understand it is likely that, some time in the new year—January or February, or something like that—the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, having consulted other Ministers, will produce a response to that.
It is clear to me that, in addition to the points and recommendations that all those reports came up with—in my own case, for example, I recommended 16 different things that the Government and the Stormont Assembly should do—this has become a hugely serious issue. The idea that people in Northern Ireland cannot buy a car of their choice in the way that we can everywhere else in the United Kingdom is really serious. I did not come across this during my review; this is a relatively new phenomenon. I have had a look at the statutory instrument, and I cannot pretend I understand every single word of it, but it means that a very serious situation is developing.
My plea to my noble friend the Minister is for him to take the results of this debate back to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and to the Minister for European Affairs, Nick Thomas-Symonds. Perhaps they could have a look, in conjunction, at the serious ways in which this could be addressed. The last thing we want is further instability in Northern Ireland around this issue, as the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said. I very much look forward to hearing my noble friend the Minister’s response.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lords, as ever, this has been an important and interesting short debate, and it was a particular pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, who raised some important issues. It is useful to know that these reports are likely to be responded to in the early new year.
Particularly, perhaps, for the benefit of the Minister, as ever this debate has been less to do with the substance of the regulations before us—which are rather technical in nature—and more to do with the legitimate and very real constitutional concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, and other noble Lords about some elements of the Windsor Framework.
The actual substance of these regulations seeks to align the EU and GB eCall components and to incorporate recent developments in international regulations on vehicles. Like the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, I cannot claim to be an expert on these subjects, but it strikes me that it would be rather hard to be against the regulations as such.
As the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, is aware, I have a great deal of sympathy with his arguments about the lack of input, as well as the lack of parliamentary scrutiny, and the realities of becoming a de facto rule taker, as we increasingly follow EU regulations since leaving the European Union. But, like the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, and as I have often said in these debates on Windsor Framework-related regulations, I think that this is a direct result of Brexit, particularly the hard Brexit that the previous Government chose to follow. It is the case that we would not be having these debates if we were still in the European Union.
These regulations state that they are about alignment and removing barriers to trade: paragraph 5 of both the Explanatory Memorandums states that they
“will ultimately remove barriers for vehicle manufacturers wishing to sell vehicles on both GB and EU/NI markets”.
In these debates on Windsor Framework regulations, we often have justifiable criticism about the lack of consultation with the relevant sectors. However, paragraph 7 of both Explanatory Memorandums states:
“All the trade associations representing vehicle manufacturers supported the proposal, highlighting the importance of aligning with international standards”.
Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2025
Debate between Lord Murphy of Torfaen and Baroness Suttie
Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)
Legally—I will come to that in a moment. Therefore, these regulations are absolutely right. We need to ensure that turnout is up, and that people vote and are encouraged to vote. I am quite attracted by the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, about the increased use of registering online, which is very sensible in this digital age. However, I agree with noble Lords who have spoken about the difficulties one encounters in Northern Ireland because of fraud and intimidation.
One of the first shocks I had when I became a Minister in Northern Ireland was to meet with the—very famous—chief electoral officer, who announced the referendum result in 1998. He came to my office in Millbank with a suitcase, which he plonked on my desk. He opened it up, and there were between 200 and 300 votes, every one of which was illegal. Obviously, we knew that this was going on, but to have it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak, concentrated the mind.
The noble Lord, Lord Elliott, was right about the closeness of results in Northern Ireland, not just for the general election but for local government elections and elections to the Assembly. Often, the complicated PR system over there, STV, means that in many cases it literally comes down to single figures. Clearly, there are people elected to public bodies in Northern Ireland who should not be because of the system that I have just described.
I agree with what has been recommended to us, but I ask my noble friend the Minister to keep an eye on developments in Northern Ireland and to work with the chief electoral officer to ensure that we are increasingly aware of fraud and intimidation and that we have a healthy system of democracy in Northern Ireland—one which, as I said earlier, we can improve so that people are voting, the turnout goes up and we get a true representation of what people feel.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lords, this has been an interesting short debate that strayed a little beyond these regulations, here and there. I thank the Minister for her introduction and the Electoral Commission for the briefing it provided ahead of this debate. I shall be extremely brief.
We support these regulations and see them as a necessary short-term fix to ensure that we do not lose the 87,000 electors from the register. However, I hope the Minister will accept that we probably have to revisit comprehensive, long-term reform of the electoral registration process in Northern Ireland. It is now essential that we modernise the system, perhaps especially ahead of the next scheduled canvass in 2030. Could the Minister say whether the Government intend at some point to introduce automatic or automated voter registration, whether they intend to use enhanced government or local government datasets for a more targeted canvass in Northern Ireland and whether they intend to incorporate electoral registration into other public service transactions to improve efficiency and accessibility?
I agree with the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, to get a government response on the increased use of online registration. It is an extremely important point and I look forward to the Minister’s reply.
As other noble Lords have said, confidence in the accuracy and completeness of the electoral registration processes in Northern Ireland is a key part of the democratic process. This measure, although a short-term fix, is important to allow 87,000 electors not to fall off, but I hope that we will look at this more comprehensively in future.