Conversion Therapy Prohibition (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) Bill [HL]

Lord Morrow Excerpts

Friday 9th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morrow (DUP)]

My Lords, I very often disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, but I agree with much that she said today. It is impossible not to be moved by some of the personal stories we have heard in this debate, although I note that those emotive stories now come from both sides of the question. As legislators, we have to move on from the emotion of stories to the hard realities of what we want the law to actually do.

Having listened to those who support the Bill, I think that we are talking about outlawing certain kinds of speech. Most of us know that physically abusive behaviour of every kind is already outlawed by existing legislation, and the Bill says nothing whatever about physical abuse, so that is not what it is targeting. What we are discussing is making criminals out of people for what they actually say. Clause 1 outlaws practices without defining those practices. It does not say electric shock therapy, which is already unlawful. In fact, it does not specify any kind of therapy, although the word “therapy” does mysteriously appear in the title of the Bill. It simply says “practice”.

We have to assume that the mere act of speaking to another person can constitute a practice. Certainly, the legal advice that has been provided on the Bill concludes that simply speaking with someone can constitute a practice. We are not talking about harmful speech. The word “harm” does not appear in the Bill—that is not the threshold—so we are proposing to outlaw certain kinds of mere speech, including objectively harmless speech.

Whose speech is the Bill targeting? What words or opinions will it outlaw? Clause 1 says it is certain kinds of assumption about gender identity and sexual orientation. I doubt there is anyone present who does not from time to time make assumptions. The dictionary says it means taking something for granted. I wonder if “assumption” is used in any other criminal law in this very broad way. I am very doubtful.

The subjects of these soon-to-be criminalised assumptions are sexual orientation and gender identity. If you think it preferable for a person to identify as their biological sex, that is the kind of assumption the Bill is targeting. If you hold to historic orthodox Christian teachings on sexual ethics, that seems to be the kind of assumption the Bill is actually targeting. Clause 1(2) states that you must also have the intention of suppressing someone’s orientation or identity. “Suppression” is the important word here. It is deliberately wide. If a mum refuses to let her trans-identifying son go to school in a dress and make-up, then surely she is suppressing his gender identity. We have heard the example from Australia where the state of Victoria says that not consenting to your child going on puberty blockers is suppressing their gender identity.

Clause 1(3) says that the penalty for making such assumptions is a level 5 fine, which we have already heard is the maximum available. I do not think the public would forgive us if we passed a law which exposed parents to huge fines simply because they do not want their kids to get caught up in the social contagion that undoubtedly exists around trans issues, and the prospect of church ministers being fined for harmlessly upholding their beliefs within their churches is not one that any democrat, Liberal or otherwise, should welcome.

This is not a good Bill. It is badly conceived because it seeks to criminalise people for their opinions and badly executed because it makes no effort to mitigate the damage to legitimate free speech and private family life. I do not think it is possible to legislate on this without causing these kinds of problems, because those who want a conversion therapy ban want it to target opinions. It is not about abuse, it is not about coercion and it is not about causing harm. None of these words appears in the Bill. It is about punishing what some people regard as wrong opinions, and that is not the kind of law any of us should be willing to go along with.