Armed Forces: Serious Crime

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the procedures for trying members of the armed forces for serious crimes such as murder; and whether they intend to consult on possible improvements to those procedures.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg to ask the Question standing in the name of my noble and learned friend Lord Morris of Aberavon.

Crime and Courts Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Wednesday 12th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, it may well be. The answer is that I do not know. There has to be a proper examination of the evidence. If I was absolutely clear, and if we could be absolutely confident that this poor woman, Miss Williams, who was abused on a train, would be covered without the word “insulting”, I would move forward on this. I think that we could accept that. Until we have evidence from the Government that allows us to be absolutely clear that we are protecting people who are subject to abuse and insult—

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

If my noble friend wants evidence, would she not take into account the views of the Director of Public Prosecutions who is in charge of all prosecutions and has reached the view that without this word there are sufficient grounds to prosecute in this kind of instance?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I would absolutely take that view on information from the Director of Public Prosecutions. However, that also has to be seen in line with the consultation that the Government have undertaken. A letter produced today does not give me confidence that we would protect those people. I do not know whether the Director of Public Prosecutions has looked at the case of Mr Braithewaite and Heather Williams, if that is what he has in mind. If the DPP could give an assurance on that case and other successful prosecutions, it would give me a lot of reassurance that we are not removing protection.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

My noble friend must have regard to the fact that the director is the head of the prosecution service. He is in charge of the Crown Prosecution Service. It is the CPS which takes the decision on whether a prosecution should take place. From his long experience at the Bar and in the law, I am sure that he has taken into account the views of all his colleagues in the service. Is that to be disregarded?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I am not disputing that. I am disputing that that should be taken in context with the other information. We have been waiting for almost a year for the Government’s consultation response. It is a disgrace that it has not been made available to the House. It is for the Government to justify that and not me.