Peerages: Letters Patent

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very good point, which I am happy to endorse.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, the late noble and learned Lord Mayhew and I, as ex-Attorney-Generals, gave evidence to this House’s Constitution Committee that the Government could not rely on the royal prerogative to go to war as it was outdated, and the committee agreed. The committee chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Burns, did not make any suggestions on how to stop a Prime Minister proposing increases in membership of this House. Will the Government consider referring to the Constitution Committee the use of the royal prerogative to recommend peerages, as its unlimited use is similarly outdated?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I do not see it quite that way. We have retirements and departures, and we support the continuation of encouraging more retirements. I think that the Liberal Democrats in particular have not as many retirements as some other parties. As we have said, we look more broadly at the role of the Lords, but it is an important point that significant measures—which I think could stem from the noble and learned Lord’s question—on the size and composition of the House of Lords are a matter for the democratically elected Government. Of course, the House and committees have a role in offering advice, but significant changes have to be for the Government of the day.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 26th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register as this is the first time I have had the honour of speaking in Committee. Amendment 4 introduces an expanded purpose for the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Fox, has explained the rationale for his wide-ranging proposal. I can understand his wish to refer to services at this introductory point in the Bill, given that they comprise over 80% of GDP, and to professional and other qualifications, harmony on which is so important to the UK’s single market.

I accept that the changes to subsections (1) and (2) merit consideration. However, I am very uneasy about the proposed new subsections (3) and (4). I fear that they make this a wrecking clause. They give the devolved Administrations a veto over the way internal market arrangements will work, in addition to the substantial powers and money that they have already been given in the various devolution settlements and EU exit Bills. This is a recipe for the politics of national resentment, chaos and delay, at a time when we need rapid agreement on the new order so that the country can move forward and make the EU exit work, difficult though this may be.

Resources are already massively redistributed out of London and the south-east to other parts of the UK, with Scotland alone having a fiscal deficit of £15 billion—namely, a subsidy from richer England—according to a recent article by David Gauke, who served in the Treasury for seven years. We do not want yet another stand-off at this moment in time with the devolved nations, able to hold things up. There has been quite enough of such delay in the exit negotiation process, now more than four years long, I remind noble Lords.

Where I have more sympathy with the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Purvis of Tweed, is on the fact that we need clarity now, before the Bill takes effect. Perhaps I can explain why by way of analogy.

When I was at Tesco, one of the key reasons for success was a clear understanding of who had responsibility for what and a readiness to accept the rules for the greater good. Procurement was done centrally by buyers, who could work with the supply chain, such as British food producers, understand their needs, strengths and innovations, agree a reasonable deal and ship goods to the stores in line with customer demand. When it came to other areas, such as who to hire as employees and how to schedule their hours, that was locally determined. The key was that everyone knew and accepted the division of labour because it contributed to the success of the whole. There was no council where everyone could waste hour after hour arguing the toss, as appears to be proposed in this amendment.

Let us have clear divisions and let us decide them now, not leave them for a great fight over a memorandum of understanding or yet more devolved government bodies backed up by dispute resolution. That is just an invitation to politically motivated folk to stop the country adjusting to the new norms and getting ahead with economic recovery and international ambition.

The proposals in the Bill are a good start, and, as noble Lords can see, I am uneasy about this particular amendment. I served for nearly three years as the single market Minister in the EU and for years as a British official negotiating in Brussels and Luxembourg, and the truth is that, subject to some minor subsidiarity, internal market rules for goods were set at the EU level in the interests of the efficient functioning of the market. By analogy, rules for the UK single market should be set at the UK level. EU services were less streamlined, but we all recognised that and wanted to bring about improvement, which was one of the main objectives of the UK presidency in 2017, but that never happened. I look forward to hearing from my noble friend the Minister, but I will take a lot of convincing that subsections (3) and (4) make sense.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I fear I must disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe. I support this amendment. The House will be aware of my approach as a devolutionist, and I will not repeat my general views. However, for my part, the key is subsections (3) and (4) of Amendment 4 on what should be contained in a very necessary and vital memorandum of understanding.

At Second Reading, I raised the divergence in understanding between the Welsh Government and Whitehall. The Welsh Government spelled out that they were losers from the Bill—their powers would be changed. There were two particular differences in understanding between HMG and the Welsh Government. First, they said that the Bill takes powers to spend money over the heads of devolved Ministers on devolved matters; and, secondly, that the Bill amends the Government of Wales Act to add the decision on and operation of state aid policy to the list of reserved powers. In the factual briefing on the Bill, the Government actually claim that they are increasing the powers of the devolved legislatures. Indeed, in the discussion on the previous amendment, the Minister claimed again that new powers were being given to the devolved legislatures. They cannot both be right. A recent meeting of Peers with the Welsh Secretary failed miserably to clarify the position. I now specifically ask for the Government to publish a reply to the Welsh Government’s document on their concerns about the Bill.

Steel Sector

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Monday 18th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I have not seen the article, but it sounds extremely interesting. I think we have made it clear that we are very keen to work with the Welsh Government on sensible options. We have already shown our readiness to get proposals through and ensure that the state aid rules are not a bar to that.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, this is a very sad day for Port Talbot. When I first became its MP, 16,000 workers went through its gates every day. There has been huge investment in the harbour, which I had the privilege of opening, and continuous casting. While I welcome the state aid approach of compensation for about 30% of electricity bills, could not the long-standing grievance of an unlevel playing field have been dealt with some years ago?

I also welcome the new guidance on procuring steel for major contracts, but is this another example of trying to bolt the stable door much too late? In short, could not the long-standing problems of the steel industry that we have been talking and reading about have been anticipated many years ago?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

This has indeed been a very long-standing issue. As far as I am concerned, I am always “glass half full” and I think we have to look forward to action that we can take together in the EU. We have to look forward to the work that has been suggested by the industrial strategy groups that have been set up on steel, and to the work that the Welsh Government, supported by our Government, can do in Port Talbot in particular.

Steel Industry

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, the energy policies to which my noble friend refers date back to the Labour years and the coalition. We are where we are now; we have paid out £50 million to the steel industry through the special energy provisions that exist. One of the groups—the one on competitiveness and productivity being chaired by my noble friend Lord O’Neill—will look at energy and environmental costs, other regulatory costs, and what action industry could take to drive up productivity and competitiveness, in the light of the playing field that my noble friend has described.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

The Prime Minister is talking to the Chinese about this issue; obviously I am not able to share the detail with noble Lords today. However, I will add that we have been active at the European Union level, as I explained last week in answer to an earlier Statement. The Secretary of State will go to Brussels next week to talk to the relevant Commissioners in the various areas, and obviously the issue of Chinese imports, anti-dumping and the marketplace that I have described will be at the absolute top of the agenda.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

The European Union can be difficult on state aid. Would the mothballing of a plant or part of a plant fall foul of European Union state aid provisions? Those of us who have represented steel constituencies know that closure is final. Mothballing would give some hope to a community.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

There are two questions there. On the first, as I explained last week on mothballing at Redcar, on the business case that was given, the Government did not have realistic confidence that a proposal for taxpayers’ support could be produced. As I am sure the noble and learned Lord knows, individual state aid claims are very complicated. You have to put the proposal together and then go and engage with the European Union. It is difficult to give a clear answer on that one.

BBC Royal Charter

Debate between Lord Morris of Aberavon and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Thursday 4th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I very much agree with the noble Baroness’s point about the power and importance of the creative industries, and of course the BBC plays a huge part in that, not least around the world because of the respect that it is accorded.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

My Lords, are there plans to consult on the BBC’s partial funding of the Welsh television channel S4C?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, the Government are committed to strong Welsh language broadcasting, although the funding arrangements for the future are clearly for the charter review. I am sure they will be looked at in that context. It is really important to safeguard Welsh language broadcasting. When I was on maternity leave, I was a big fan of “Pobol y Cwm”, which you can get in the south-west, where I was spending some time.