High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Jack Straw

Monday 28th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I give way to the former Foreign Secretary.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I offer the right hon. Gentleman, without any caveats, my full support and say to him that most colleagues representing constituencies in the north actively back this scheme, for the very reasons he has spelt out? Does he also accept that those who represent some home counties through which this route is going of course have legitimate constituency concerns but that, for example, the Chiltern railway line has benefited twice over from investment—from the last phase of investment by British Rail and from Evergreen—and that the M40 was far more disruptive to people living in the Chilterns but nobody would now suggest it should be abandoned or greened over?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and I completely agree with him. One of this morning’s papers, I believe it was The Daily Telegraph, said that this Bill will certainly have been scrutinised more than any major infrastructure project we have dealt with, across the whole piece.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I want to compare the relative wealth of the home counties, including Buckinghamshire—with Chesham and Amersham and many other constituencies—with that of the north-west, using figures provided to me by the House of Commons Library. Sixty years ago, the GDP per person in the home counties was just below that of Britain as a whole, and it was identical to that of the north-west. In the four and a half decades to 2001, a large gap opened up. By 2001, the home counties were on average nearly 20% better off than the average for mainland Great Britain, while the north-west had fallen back relatively to more than 10 percentage points below the average, 30 percentage points below the home counties. Similar data apply to the north of England as well.

Part of this widening gap is a consequence of factors that were, to a great extent, beyond the control of any Government—not least the fact that mass manufacturing migrated to the east of the globe. It was also due to factors within our control, however. I am not suggesting that, in the intervening period, the great cities of the north—Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle—have sat and wallowed in self-pity. When my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) was leader of Manchester city council, for example, that city pulled itself up by its bootstraps. A big gap remains, however.

Among many others, there is one significant reason for that gap. Ironically, a clue is to be found in today’s report by the Institute of Economic Affairs that is otherwise noteworthy only for its internal incoherence. In the report, the institute comments on the regeneration of London’s docklands, which it says

“has been subsidised by taxpayers through large sums spent on government transport schemes and other projects”.

It lists some of those projects. They include

“the Jubilee Line Extension, Docklands Light Railway…the south-east leg of Crossrail”,

as well as many road schemes. This is the same engine of growth that has benefited Buckinghamshire and the home counties, and that has led to the widening gap.

I do not blame any Member for speaking up for their constituency. I have no direct constituency interest in this matter. In any configuration, the line will not go through Blackburn, but I believe that it will greatly benefit us. I part company with those who have spoken in defence of their constituencies, however, when they try to elevate their understandable constituency concerns into some overall economic case against the project; that is frankly disingenuous.

The amendment speaks of its acceptance of the need to increase overall railway capacity. Had I been able to make an intervention on the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) in her untimed speech, I would have asked her, given that she accepts that need for increased capacity, how she intended to achieve it in the absence of HS2. I have been in the Chamber since the moment the debate started, and everyone has accepted that the west coast main line is full to capacity—[Interruption.] I hear someone say no. They have obviously not been on that line.

[Mr McLoughlin]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that one of the biggest problems of capacity relates to the feed into London? That is our biggest capacity problem. A lot of people have said that we should start in the north, but although that is tempting, the biggest capacity problem is in the south.

[Mr Straw]

I accept that. I came into the House a long time ago, when the line to Manchester and Liverpool was so slow that there was still a need for sleeper trains. They were very reliable, because they went slowly. I accept that for those travelling from the north-west and from the midlands, the main capacity constraints are those south of Rugby. The amendment proclaims a need for greater capacity, but it fails to provide further and better particulars on how to achieve it.

One reason that the west coast main line upgrade took so long and cost so much was that it had to be added on to the existing infrastructure. That was far more disruptive and costly than the provision of additional lines. I look forward to hearing alternative suggestions, but the only way I have heard of providing additional capacity for passengers and, critically, for freight is through the provision of additional two-track capacity. That would be far less disruptive than the construction of the M40 or any other motorway, and it would produce benefits to constituents in the home counties, as well as to those in the north and north-west, by relieving the present capacity constraints.

I am passionately in favour of the HS2 proposals—all the way: phase 1 and phase 2—but they can go ahead only on an all-party basis. I welcome the decisions of the Cabinet and the shadow Cabinet to back the Bill now and for whoever wins the election to back it, the other side of the election.

High-speed Rail

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Jack Straw

Monday 24th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

The full consultation process for the part of the line that goes through my hon. Friend’s constituency is ongoing, and no final decision has been made. I hope to be able to say something about the compensation relating to phase 1 very shortly.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I thank the Secretary of State for the report and congratulate Sir David Higgins on it? Does the Secretary of State accept that the data on page 8 of Sir David Higgins’s report, which show that investment per head in London and the south-east has been running at least three times that of any other region, emphasise his point that this is not a zero-sum game between HS2 investment and investment in other services but rather the reverse—that this investment, properly co-ordinated with control period 6, should beget further investment in rail services across the north?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman; I think he is right. I will not chastise him about when this huge extra expenditure in London was first committed to—we will leave that to one side. What is important is getting the long-term investment in infrastructure right for all the northern cities. That is vital to all of us who care about those cities, and those connections, and about making sure that they have the right opportunities. As I said in my statement, this kind of project does not happen over one Parliament but runs over several Parliaments. That is why it is so important to have as much cross-party support as possible for such a big scheme. I believe that this will be an evolutionary change in transport. As I said, it will do for future generations what the motorways have done for today’s generation.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Jack Straw

Monday 29th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Successive reports this year from the Transport Committee and a National Audit Office report last week have indicated that the Department is running a huge underspend on its capital programme. The NAO report last week talks about addressing

“£1.7 billion unexpected funds for infrastructure”.

I realise that the Secretary of State has been in office for only a few weeks, but can he say to what extent the slimming down of the Department and its preoccupation with the issue of rail franchising has meant that it lacked the capacity to ensure that funds properly allocated to it—for example, for road repairs and desperately needed regional rail infrastructure improvements—are spent, and what he is doing to address that?

[Mr McLoughlin]

The right hon. Gentleman’s question goes slightly wider than my statement this afternoon, but I point out that I made an announcement just a few weeks ago about a pinch-point plan to relieve certain areas of road congestion, which will cost £170 million. Wherever money is spent, I am determined to ensure that good value is obtained and that we do not waste public money. That is more important to a Minister than making sure he spends the money, come what may.