Overseas Aid: Post-2015 Development Agenda

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Thursday 25th July 2013

(10 years, 10 months ago)

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Asked By
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to follow up the report of the United Nations High-level Panel on the Post-2015 Development Agenda.

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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My Lords, the Government welcome the high-level panel’s report as an ambitious and practical starting point for negotiations on the post-2015 development framework. Over the next two years we will work internationally to seek to build momentum behind the panel’s recommendations and to ensure that the final framework is equally strong.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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I thank the Minister for that Answer. Everyone in this House who has taken part in debates on this matter will welcome the very strong analysis and recommendations made in the report of the high-level panel on the issues of conflict, security and development. In fact, the recommendations are perhaps surprising given the hostility that there may be elsewhere in the United Nations system towards these issues. What action will the Government take to build a broad coalition in the United Nations and elsewhere to secure these recommendations and to make sure that the final report for the post-2015 development framework tackles the crucial issues of peacebuilding and post-conflict reconstruction?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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This report is remarkable. Many people felt that it would be very difficult to secure something as focused, streamlined and effective as this one is, following on as it does from the previous one, which was negotiated almost in isolation. Many different groups and organisations from countries across the globe have been involved, which is a good omen for taking this forward. However, the noble Lord is absolutely right to say that it is going to need a lot of work, and this Government will be putting that work in to ensure that what is finally proposed is as strong as this initial report.

Africa: Development

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Thursday 27th June 2013

(10 years, 10 months ago)

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Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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There are a number of challenges and my noble friend has referred to just one. There are many challenges in terms of trade out of Africa and within Africa. The international community and the African countries themselves are trying to take forward better inter-country trade and more effective trade out of Africa.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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Last week, Members of both Houses had the opportunity to have a very interesting dialogue with the new chairperson of the African Union Commission, who outlined very clearly her priorities and the priorities of the commission for the next few years. Is it now time for the UK, other European donors and the European Union to put in place a long-term strategy to build up the capacity of the African Union and its institutions to help the continent to support its own development rather than it always being done through bilateral relationships with ourselves and others?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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The AU and African countries are building that kind of experience and are doing so in a way that might lead one to be cautiously optimistic. According to the report, more progress has been made where there is better gender equality, and I note that that is also represented in the AU.

International Development: Budget

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Tuesday 11th June 2013

(10 years, 11 months ago)

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Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for raising this subject this evening and for giving us an opportunity not just to seek clarification but to express what is clearly a strongly held view among most Members of your Lordships’ House. I refer to the inference that the expenditure pattern on development might change to assist the Ministry of Defence in what may be perceived as current difficulties with its budget, and the real strategy at the heart of what successive Governments have been trying to achieve, which was damaged by that intervention, or at least the public description of it.

I associate myself wholeheartedly with the content of the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Bates, and his analysis of the importance of this issue and of conflict in fragile states. I also wholeheartedly endorse the speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester.

The Government have done remarkably well on the agenda for international development over these past three years. Many who were, perhaps in advance of the 2010 election, slightly suspicious of the Government’s commitment to international development, have been proven wrong. The consistency with which they have applied the comprehensive approach initially begun by the previous Government, by improving and expanding upon some of the procedures that were put in place, such as the Building Stability Overseas strategy, the extension of the Conflict Pool following its review, the establishment of a National Security Council, and the implementation this year of the 0.7% of gross national income of our national budget for international development, have all been important steps on the right road.

It is not just in their individual actions that the Government have been right. Having watched this closely and been pleased at what has happened over the past three years, even I was surprised to see the Chancellor on television at the time that this issue was raised, presumably by one of the Prime Minister’s aides, back in February or March, whenever it was first in the news. The Chancellor said that it was in this area of our expenditure, where we commit to an international agreement and we implement that commitment, that we give ourselves influence around the world in ways that are almost impossible through other means. To hear that coming now on a cross-party basis from these Houses of Parliament should give us all great pride.

In that context it was with dismay that I watched the debate on this issue emerge in the early months of this year. The suggestion that money could be transferred from international development to help out with the defence budget was wrong on four grounds.

First, it is against the rules. So it was a silly thing to say in the first place—it cannot be done. The idea that the international development budget could be used for non-international development purposes was never going to have any traction, and therefore to suggest that for public consumption was frankly silly. Secondly, and allied to that, it is dangerous. It puts in danger those in the field who are trying to work in the most difficult of countries and situations—those states referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Bates. It therefore makes the lives of those who take on the most difficult challenges in our world today more difficult.

Thirdly, such a suggestion reverses the strategy begun by the previous Government, built upon by this Government, on the comprehensive approach that says that, in today’s 21st-century modern world, defence, development and foreign relations cannot exist independently of each other. They will be successful only if they work together.

Fourthly, the suggestion reduces our influence internationally. Not only has the UK been implementing this strategy at home for most of the last decade, it has been leading the international strategy on this debate as well. When I was the previous Prime Minister’s special representative for peacebuilding between 2008 and 2010, I had the fascinating privilege to visit United Nations missions around the world, with both peacebuilding and peacekeeping missions. People consistently said to me—particularly local people, or those involved in national government in countries around the world where these missions exist—that the lack of co-ordination between defence, development, peacebuilding and peacekeeping, between a national strategy and the international intervention of agencies and donors, and the lack of a comprehensive strategy were the biggest blocks to building peace and ensuring that development is able to take place effectively.

If we have learnt that lesson anywhere over the past decade, we have learnt it in Somalia, where we have seen remarkable progress over the past two or three years. We should never be complacent about the situation in Somalia and the Horn of Africa, certainly not in the short or medium term. The European Union, the United Nations, the World Bank, individual donors, those involved in development and those involved in military training and expertise are all coming together in one strategy, and making a difference in trying to build a new democratic parliament and some opportunity for Somalia to build its way out of the horrors of the past 20 or 30 years. To reverse that strategy now and to play games with this issue is a dangerous thing to do.

I hope that there will be further clarification. The Minister has clarified this matter in your Lordships’ House before, but I hope tonight she will be able to do so once more. I also hope that in seeking this clarification we will say clearly to the Government that it is essential that they not only implement this strategy here in the UK, but continue to lead on it internationally, and ensure that the United Nations, the World Bank and others work together in a truly comprehensive approach across every continent.

Queen’s Speech

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Wednesday 15th May 2013

(11 years ago)

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Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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My Lords, having led a coalition Government in Scotland for six years, I understand the difficulties of reaching agreement on a legislative programme and on other aspects of a programme for government and then expressing them clearly, but there are disappointments in Her Majesty’s gracious Speech that we need to highlight in this debate.

Through the vehicle of the speech, the Government rightly identify as key priorities for their strategy the need for Britain to compete and succeed in the world; our role in helping with conflict prevention; and some of the key building blocks of development to assist with conflict prevention in different parts of the world. In some of their specific actions not just now but over the past three years, they have been taking the right steps. I strongly welcome the initiative on sexual violence in countries affected by conflict and the objective set out for the G8 in Northern Ireland in June, particularly on tax transparency and trade. We should all welcome the fact that the Government have spent 0.75% of gross national income on overseas development assistance. The FCO’s prioritisation of countries with emerging markets is a helpful, but overdue, reprioritisation of the work of our overseas posts. I also welcome the fact that through the National Security Council the Government have continued and developed the comprehensive approach of the previous Government in bringing together the work of the Ministry of Defence, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development.

While the Government have the overall aspiration and some of the specifics right, there is a huge gap in the middle that is damaging the strategy working towards those aspirations, and I shall highlight three aspects of it. The first is immigration. We will compete and succeed in the world only if we are open, flexible and welcoming. The Government’s rhetoric on immigration is damaging Britain’s international standing and our ability to be entrepreneurial and competitive. The way in which the visa regime is being applied by the FCO is deeply damaging to our relationships, particularly in the Commonwealth, about which the noble Lord, Lord Howell, spoke so eloquently about earlier. The way in which the visa regime is being used to turn away or delay the entry into this country of people who have a perfectly legitimate right to be here and to contribute to our debates, discussions and economic progress is causing us all sorts of difficulties, and I urge the Government to address that issue and look again at their rhetoric on immigration.

The second area in which the gracious Speech was disappointing was the absence of legislation to commit to 0.7% of gross national income. This target is now agreed by all parties—the previous Government and the current Government—and was implemented by the current Government. That decision has been welcomed following the recent Budget. The way to take the politics out of it and to take the quantity of aid out of the debate to start to focus on the quality of overseas development assistance is to enshrine that in law, take the party politics out of the issue for ever and ensure that we focus on the way in which we spend the money rather than on how much we spend. Both coalition parties promised to do so, and they have let down the country and our allies abroad by backing off from that commitment.

In relation to aid, the way in which someone somewhere in the Government, behind the scenes, perhaps a special adviser or somebody of that sort, is hinting occasionally in the press that there will be some use of aid money to assist with security initiatives is also deeply damaging to the credibility we have built up on overseas development assistance. I know what the rules are, and Ministers and officials know what the rules are. The Government will not be using aid money for security purposes. Occasionally to drop hints to voices in the press who are reluctant to see our commitment to international aid implemented is damaging here, because it causes uncertainty, and damaging abroad, because it affects our credibility, and whoever is doing it should stop.

The third area I want to identify is that of the European Union. There can be no doubt that the three big challenges facing the United Kingdom and our strategy for international relations—covering defence, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development—are the impact of the global economy, our relationship with it and ability to succeed and compete within it, and the framework that exists following the crash of 2008. There are also changes in climate and population, and other aspects of our environment and quality of life in every continent. There are different changes in different places, but they will grow, not diminish, over the next two decades. Thirdly, there are the security issues which have been mentioned by other noble Lords, and their relationship with development and they key objective of trying to secure greater stabilisation in fragile states through development and security measures.

There can be no argument that multilateral action is vital to tackle all of those three challenges. Our engagement, not just in the United Nations but in the Commonwealth and the European Union, is absolutely central to our participation in tackling these challenges at an international level. There might be a debate on the economic benefits or otherwise of being in the European Union. There are views held passionately on either side of that debate in this Chamber; no doubt we will hear them tonight. In addition to the points made earlier about a trade agreement with the United States, some of those who are most concerned about our attitude to the European Union are the Japanese and other economic partners elsewhere, who see Britain’s participation in the EU as vital for us and for the European Union itself.

While some noble Lords in this Chamber and others elsewhere are passionately opposed to the idea of shared sovereignty in principle, the one way in which we can ensure that the world we leave behind us for future generations is more secure, more economically successful, prosperous, fairer and more able to adapt to change in climate, population and other aspects of our environment, is to have a strong Britain taking part in a strong European Union, and for that European Union to be contributing to those debates at the international level. It is absolutely time for those of us who believe in that strongly to speak up for those future generations, take action now and stop this damaging move into a referendum that may well conclude by damaging this country and also global affairs.

Developing Countries: Budgetary Support

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Wednesday 15th May 2013

(11 years ago)

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Asked by
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what criteria they will employ for the allocations of direct budgetary support to developing countries in 2013-14.

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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My Lords, DfID will continue to provide budget support when it represents the best way of delivering results and value for money compared to other forms of development assistance, and when a Government are committed to the UK’s partnership principles of poverty reduction, human rights, fighting corruption and strengthening accountability to citizens.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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The Government suspended general budget support to Malawi in July 2011, and to Rwanda in November 2012. Malawi is a long-term ally of this country, with a new president who is changing many of the policies that were of concern to the Government back in 2011, and Rwanda has an excellent reputation on both corruption and spending this money as wisely as possible. Will the Government review both these decisions in 2013?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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Both those decisions are kept under review. As the noble Lord will know, as regards Malawi, in November 2012 the UK provided emergency budget support, recognising what Joyce Banda had done. We will continue to monitor the situation in Malawi. As regards Rwanda, as he will know, the budget support was suspended because of actions by the Rwandan Government towards the rebel groups in the DRC. The Secretary of State will take a decision during the summer regarding any further disbursements and reprogramming decisions.

EU: Budget

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Thursday 17th January 2013

(11 years, 4 months ago)

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Asked by
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what position they will take on the European Development Fund and other European Union aid budgets in the current negotiations on future European Union funding.

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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My Lords, the UK’s top priority in negotiations for the EU budget for 2014-20 is budgetary restraint. We oppose increases beyond inflation in any area of EU expenditure, including the European Development Fund. However, it is important at least to maintain or increase the proportion of official development assistance within restrained EDF and overall EU budgets.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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I thank the Minister for her Answer. It would be an absolute scandal if those who lived in the poorest countries in the world were made to pay for the deficits that exist in the richest part of the world. In addition, will the Government address this technical point? Any reductions in the EU aid budget will simply have to be made up again in the national aid budgets of the member states. In the United Kingdom, where we have agreed to meet the 0.7% international target, that will mean that any reduction in the EU aid budget is simply transferred to the DfID budget because the EU aid budget contributes to that 0.7% target. The only countries that will benefit from a reduction in the EU aid budget will be those that wish to reduce their aid contributions by the back door and do not replace that money in their national budgets. Will the Government look again at this issue and ensure that the EU aid budget is preserved so that those countries that wish to reduce their aid contributions by the back door are not allowed to do so, and ensure that we make a contribution to that multilateral development assistance?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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I thank the noble Lord for his question. He is well aware that the United Kingdom is increasing its own spending because it recognises the importance of supporting the poorest in the world, even when we are in financial difficulties. As far as the EDF and the EU budget are concerned, we scrutinise them very carefully for their poverty focus. We are encouraged by the direction they are heading in, so perhaps I can reassure the noble Lord in that regard. However, we will continue to keep up the pressure, as it needs to be poverty-focused. I point out that we are fifth in the league, as it were, in terms of ODA in the EU, behind Sweden, Luxembourg, Denmark and the Netherlands, all of which have gone beyond the 0.7%. The evidence is not quite as he indicated in terms of other countries. For example, there are increases from Germany, Italy and Sweden, so the picture here is not quite as he portrays it.

World Food Supplies

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Thursday 10th January 2013

(11 years, 4 months ago)

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Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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The noble Lord is right. DfID does support smallholder production, and one of the key issues here is trying to establish land rights. The United Kingdom is working in a number of countries to promote this and has increased the spending in this area. It is working in 13 countries to support smallholder farmers by supplying seeds, fertilisers and access to finance and by making sure that women, who are often the ones running these smallholdings, are particularly supported.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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Do the Government agree that the land reforms implemented in rural Scotland over the past decade have shown the benefit of involving those who live on the land in its future use? That benefits both the wider community and the individual families concerned, and may provide some lessons that could be used in our international development policy to assist those who are currently fighting against their movement from the land or the exploitation of their land in other parts of the world.

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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The noble Lord makes a good point. He will probably be aware that at the G8 last year the New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition was set up specifically to take forward that approach of looking at the responsible development of agriculture, recognising its importance in sustaining the poorest communities and making sure that people are engaged in that positively. The UK is continuing to press forward that approach.

International Development

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Tuesday 6th November 2012

(11 years, 6 months ago)

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Asked by
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will seek to include goals in relation to conflict and security in the successor to millennium development goals after 2015.

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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My Lords, conflict-affected and fragile states are the furthest from reaching the current millennium development goals. Conflict and security are also often overriding concerns for poor people. The Government recognise that a post-2015 framework will need to reflect the particular challenges faced by these countries, and address the root causes of poverty in all developing countries.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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My Lords, I thank the Minister for her Answer, and I understand completely the Government’s commitment to this agenda. The reality is, however, that in conflict-affected and fragile states, children are twice as likely to be undernourished, babies are twice as likely to die before the age of five, and none of these states is likely to reach any of the millennium development goals by 2015. Will the Government use their position of leadership, as a co-chair of the high-level panel on the post-2015 development framework, to take responsibility for the next generation? Will they ensure that, unlike the previous millennium development goals, the next set of goals for the international community reflect the importance of justice, security and peace, without which there cannot be development in these affected states?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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The noble Lord is right about how the effect of conflict wipes away development gains. He refers to the high-level panel which the UN set up; the Prime Minister is one of its co-chairs, and it met last week. Given that it is seeking to address the causes of poverty, it is acutely aware that, as he says, no fragile and conflict-affected state will reach any of the MDGs.

EAC Report: Development Aid

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Monday 22nd October 2012

(11 years, 7 months ago)

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Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, for his concise—owing to this evening’s time limits—introduction to the debate and for the hard work that he clearly did on the Economic Affairs Committee to produce the report with the support of all members of the committee. I also thank the noble Lords who were members of that committee for the time that they put into gathering so much evidence, producing such a comprehensive range of recommendations and dealing with such a comprehensive range of issues, and for the priority that they gave to this issue, allowing us to have this debate tonight in your Lordships’ Chamber. Much is worth while in the report and in many of the recommendations, but I believe that the report contains a contradiction at its core, and I welcome the opportunity to outline it at the start of this debate.

Although I believe that the report, the evidence gathered and much of the analysis outlined make the case for some changes in policy and spending on aid and development, I do not believe that they make the case for the reductions outlined in far too many of the recommendations. There is a contradiction between, on the one hand, saying that we should not set an arbitrary target for spending increases or decreases and, on the other hand, the arbitrary impact that that then has on that spending. In fact, in too many cases the report seeks to reduce the level of spending either on individual objectives or through individual institutions or as a general goal. In paragraph 115 the report specifically says that,

“the prize, at the end of the day, [is] less taxpayer-funded aid”.

I believe that in our world today that is an appropriate target for the United Kingdom. Therefore, my remarks will concentrate more on the overall case for development aid and the objectives set out by the British Government and less on individual instances and individual countries.

For this country and elsewhere around the world, these are no doubt difficult times. We live in an imperfect world where every decision made, particularly in fragile, delicate or post-conflict countries, can have messy outcomes. However, the United Kingdom also has a duty and a responsibility to meet its international obligations and to be a force for the stabilisation of fragile states and, of course, for the reduction of global inequalities and poverty. That is a necessity. It is in our interests here in the United Kingdom—economically, environmentally, socially, diplomatically and particularly perhaps in relation to our security—just as much as in individual developing countries or the communities that make up those countries to ensure that the gaps between the developed and the developing world are minimised. However, there is also a duty on the United Kingdom—partly because of our colonial past and partly because of our responsibilities as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, as a leading member of the European Union, as the heart of the Commonwealth and due to our role in many other international institutions—to be at the forefront of the global efforts to deal with conflict and poverty. In this country, we should ask not only what is in it for us but, crucially, what is the right thing to do.

The committee argued that there is too much corruption, bad management and inefficient government in developing countries and that that should be used as a reason for reducing development aid. However, when Members of Parliament in this country were spending public money inappropriately on their homes and offices and on personal possessions we did not use that as a reason to cut the amount of money we made available to their constituents. Therefore, we should not use it as a reason for action that would have such devastating consequences elsewhere in the world. There is inefficiency, greed and bad management all over our world. Our job should be to try to help to improve the world, not to make the conditions worse.

The committee argued that at times development aid can have very little purpose or, indeed, sometimes no purpose in relation to economic growth, and that there is a far stronger role for the private sector. I have no doubt that a strong private sector and a growing private economy—particularly one that is free of corruption and is transparent and based on the long-term stability that comes from regulation and the rule of law—are absolutely critical in the fastest-growing developing countries. However, so, too, is an educated and healthy workforce, as well as the infrastructure that allows people to get goods to market, whether that infrastructure is physical or electronic or whether it is about human potential and capital in the 21st century. Governance and institutions that can provide the stable framework for business in which the private sector can properly operate are also critical.

As the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, said, the committee argued that the target of 0.7% should not be legislated for by the Government and that, indeed, it should be dropped. I accept that that conclusion will have been reached after much deliberation and that a serious point is being made there. It would be possible for me simply to say that, in fact, UK aid and aid internationally is making such a huge difference that we should not countenance that suggestion. I could talk about the 46 million children who now start school because international aid has made a difference, the 6 million people receiving treatment for HIV, or the fact that UNICEF reported just last month that the number of children dying before the age of five in our world today is half what it was in 1990. However, those arguments are not enough. I could argue from the point of self-interest—that for every £1 in aid that we spend in Africa, we get about £2 back in trade. I could make that point and many others in relation to our self-interest.

However, there is a more fundamental point here. Legislating for the 0.7% target would allow the very outcome that the Economic Affairs Committee of this House is seeking to achieve. If we legislated for that 0.7% and we did so on an all-party basis, first, the amount spent in aid could well decrease as well as increase because it would change according to the conditions of our own economy, not because of some arbitrary decision by a politician or departmental official in DfID, and, secondly, it would take the debate on the amount of spending out of party politics and ensure that we spent our time in this Chamber and in the other place concentrating on how that money was spent and on making sure that it was spent more effectively in the years to come.

Therefore, my case for legislating for the 0.7% is based not on an arbitrary target but on the fact that it would lead to the outcome that I believe the members of the committee were seeking to achieve of ensuring that the United Kingdom is at the centre of these affairs globally—a position we should be proud to be in. By legislating for a target of 0.7%, we can take the discussion forward and have a real debate on impact, moving forward in capacity-building, in building human capital, in ensuring that there is better governance and in getting decent relationships with good Governments who are transparent, corruption-free and more effective. At the same time, perhaps we could learn some lessons from those new corruption-free, transparent, efficient and effective Governments in the developing world that we could bring back home.

Food Security Summit

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Excerpts
Wednesday 25th July 2012

(11 years, 10 months ago)

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Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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The right reverend Prelate is absolutely right to emphasise the need to support those working in agriculture in their various countries. It is striking that 75% of the world’s population live in rural settings dependent on agriculture, and we are acutely aware that they are very vulnerable. People in developing countries spend 60% of their income on food, unlike in the UK, where the figure is about 10%, so one can see how vulnerable people are in these situations. We are targeting our support to try to help smallholding-farmer households and women in particular in those circumstances.

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale Portrait Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
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My Lords, will the summit look at the consequences of conflict on food security and, in particular, the fact that the consequences of conflict can sometimes have an unintended impact in neighbouring countries, as we see today in the Sahel region of west Africa? Is it possible for the summit to look at how we address these issues of conflict in the context of dealing with food security?

Baroness Northover Portrait Baroness Northover
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All these factors interlink. The fragility of some of these countries feeds into their problems in terms of food, and that is clearly the case in the Sahel, where the United Kingdom is supporting the feeding of 400,000 people. We are well aware of how these things interlink and I am sure that that will be part of the discussions at this event.