Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Maude of Horsham and Gerry Sutcliffe

Wednesday 5th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

The arrangements for the monitoring of facility time were very mixed indeed, and in most cases almost non-existent. It has taken a long time—many months—to tease out of Whitehall the data on how much is being spent and how much facility time there is. We estimate that the cost to the taxpayer of facility time for trade unions in the civil service alone is between £33 million and £36 million a year. That is too much, which is why we are consulting on how it can be significantly reduced and controlled.

[Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)]

When measuring the costs, the Minister should take account of not just the cost of the time to the taxpayer, but the benefit of the work done by trade unions throughout the civil service. How will he estimate the cost of what he is doing in terms of benefit?

[Mr Maude]

I am confident that our consultation will tease out the benefits. I absolutely accept that the trade union duty to support union members in employment disputes can have a benefit, and for that reason we are not suggesting that all facility time should be removed; indeed, it would not be lawful for us to do so. However, the amount is excessive. It has been allowed to creep up over time, and it now needs to be reduced and controlled for the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Maude of Horsham and Gerry Sutcliffe

Wednesday 2nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

As I have said, we are going to consult on this. We will want to look very carefully at the phenomenon whereby large numbers of civil servants and other public servants are engaged full time as union officials at the taxpayers’ expense. There may be a case for some of this continuing, but certainly not on the scale we inherited from the Labour party.

[Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)]

But is there not also a point to be made about how much money is saved to the public purse by having good industrial relations? Instead of going backwards, should not the Minister be going forward and talking about how he could improve industrial relations?

[Mr Maude]

If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make the case for why more and more taxpayers’ money should be spent on subsidising union officials, let him do so, and let him explain to his constituents why that is good value when what they want is taxpayers’ money to be spent on front-line public services, on which the most vulnerable people in our society depend.