Justice and Security Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Martin of Springburn and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Monday 19th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, the amendment makes heavy weather of finding a chairman. Most, if not all, members of this committee will have a long history and reputation in both Houses. I do not see where the difficulty would be if at the first meeting the members chose a chairman. I do not see anything wrong with that. That is a tradition that I found in local government. The first time we met after we were elected, we picked a leader of the group. That happens in the House of Lords and in the House of Commons, where I used to belong.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, I have a very full response to give to this amendment, but we have had a very full debate. It has been a very useful debate. I know that it is customary for Ministers to thank noble Lords who have presented amendments, but I thank my noble friends because they have brought to the Report stage an interesting idea about the relationship between the ISC, Parliament and the Prime Minister. Having said that, with even the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, having some doubts about the efficacy of this amendment, I am at one with the noble Lords, Lord Reid and Lord Gilbert, and my noble friend Lord King in seeing the great difficulties that this election might present. It was interesting to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Reid, analysing the motives that people might have for seeking to be rejected by the Prime Minister as being a suitable candidate. I have little doubt that some people would seek to exploit that situation.

I shall reiterate the Government’s position on this matter. This committee will be elected by Parliament and nominations will be provided by the Government. Parliament will be the final arbiter of who sits on the committee. The Government propose that the chairman of the committee will be elected by the members of the committee. That represents a sufficiently practical solution to the particular task that this committee undertakes. We have had some speculation about whether the chairman of the committee should be drawn from the Opposition. I have given the Government’s position, which is that it is for the committee to decide who should be the chairman of the committee. I do not believe that it can be done by an election by another place or by this House electing the chairman. For that reason, I ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.

Government Efficiency: Sir Philip Greens’ Report

Debate between Lord Martin of Springburn and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Thursday 14th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his exposition of the Opposition’s position on this matter, but to answer his question, it is true that the Government have failed to leverage their position. Perhaps I may give an example that in fact stems from the previous Government, energy, which is a very good example of what can be achieved by using leverage. The purchase of 75 per cent of electricity and gas requirements has been centralised in an expert team, resulting in cumulative savings of £500 million. That is a substantial sum and something worth achieving.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, I do not doubt that the senior officers of both Houses will be looking at efficiencies for this great historic building of ours. Can I ask for assurance that, in doing so, we never reduce the standard of security? I ask this not for selfish reasons, but because we have a dedicated staff of thousands of people here, as well as thousands of visitors. We owe it to them to make sure that security is not loosened in any way because of so-called efficiencies.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, I think I can reassure the noble Lord on that point because I have read Sir Philip’s recommendations, and there is no recommendation on security matters. However, I am sure that the appropriate committee of this House and the other place will make any necessary judgments on these matters.