NATO

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Behind my noble friend’s question is of course the truth that the world is changing, the balance of power is changing, and the unipolar moment, as it is called, for the United States has passed. Nevertheless, it remains an immensely powerful and close ally that is playing quite a detailed and substantial part in the overall operation against Colonel Gaddafi’s Libya and against the hideous divisions of that country. The US case, and our case, that other countries in NATO could do more is widely accepted by everyone. Clearly, there is a great need for a fairer distribution of the burden of meeting the Libyan situation and many other situations that are bound to arise.

I do not think that we should be too gloomy about that adjustment. America remains our very close friend and one of the greatest countries in the world. We will work very closely with it on security, and the softer aspects of security, in trying to achieve global peace and stability.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

Is the Minister as concerned as I am that some Ministers in the Scottish Parliament are publicly saying that they want to withdraw from NATO? This would be harmful to the Scottish people and to the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Perhaps I should be but I am not as concerned as he is because I did not know that they were doing this. If Ministers in the Scottish Parliament think that they can somehow opt out of the collective security on which we all depend, and if any country thinks that it can have a free ride, they will need to think again because in this new world most of the operations in which we will be involved will now be completely interdependent, operating closely with a whole range of allies in different combinations. I am sure that the skills, the fighting spirit and the long traditions of Scotland will be just as much needed in global security as everything else. Perhaps these Ministers should think again.

European Union Bill

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Monday 13th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

I thank the noble Baroness. I have listened to her not only here but in the other place and I have always had great respect for what she has to say.

I recall when we spoke here about the help that we would give Ireland, a country of which I am very fond, and everyone in this House, to their credit, supported that move. However, there is a big difference between helping out a friend and neighbour and taking on the same currency as that neighbour. The men and women, particularly in the west of Scotland, which I know well and which is so near Ireland, hear the stories of how difficult things became for Ireland when they entered the euro and gave up their punt. Those stories will have a big impact on any decision. I do not think that anyone, any Member of Parliament in the House of Commons, would want to join the euro at this particular stage.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby]

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Martin, but I think he misunderstood my point. I was not advocating that we join the euro—indeed, I went so far as to say that I saw no possibility in the near future of our doing so or even wishing to do so. My point was that we cannot walk away from the plight of Ireland because we do not happen to belong to the euro. We have to address those issues whether or not we belong to the euro, and that is an issue on which I would have thought the noble Lord and I would find ourselves sharing a very strong sense of agreement.

Kyrgyzstan

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Wednesday 6th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I had hoped that I had made it clear that our assistance is predominantly through the multilateral organisations: the European Union, the UN and the OSCE. I have just mentioned that we make a bilateral contribution as well. Obviously these are parts of a more general aim, in the interests of this country, to contribute to the stability of the whole region, which has important implications for the future security of the whole of Europe, including, particularly, in the energy field. I think that I have to repeat what I said earlier, which was that it is through the international institutions that we are making our main effort.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

It is my understanding that many politicians from that country are keen to learn about parliamentary democracy. Could the IPU and the CPA be approached, because they have an excellent reputation for running seminars for politicians from abroad, particularly those from new democracies, to give whatever help and assistance they can and to allow Members of both Houses to share their experiences of parliamentary democracy?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is a very positive idea. I will check with both those organisations to see what involvement they have. My half-memory is that they already have some involvement with promoting the beginnings and the embryo of parliamentary improvement and government in that country and associated countries. I will certainly approach them and check it out.

Pope Benedict XVI: State Visit Funding

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Thursday 10th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is usually right in his interventions, but in this case he is dead wrong. The contributions from DfID and other departments all had their good reasons. It so happens that the Government take the view—and, I suspect, the noble Lord takes the view—that the work of the Catholic Church in health and education overseas reinforces and combines with our work in a most valuable way. I hate to hear any suggestion that it should be downgraded as the noble Lord’s question implied.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, may I have it put on the record that this was nothing to do with the Catholic Church? This was a decision of ministerial departments.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am not quite sure what the noble Lord is saying. He is right—this was partly a visit by a head of state to Her Majesty the Queen, and a pastoral visit. The money I am talking about related to the heads of state costs incurred by the Government—and rightly so. The Church also made its contribution to other pastoral costs, but I am talking about the Government’s costs.