Tunisia and European Council

Debate between Lord Maginnis of Drumglass and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Monday 29th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Ind UU)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

We should listen to the question from the Cross Benches.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Debate between Lord Maginnis of Drumglass and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to assess formally the impact and benefit of police commissioners; and whether they intend to publish a report.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)]

My Lords, the best assessment of the impact and benefit of police and crime commissioners will be the one made by voters when PCCs are up for re-election in 2016. The Home Affairs Select Committee recently published its report Police and Crime Commissioners: Progress to Date. From the evidence gathered, the committee concluded that PCCs provide greater clarity of leadership and are increasingly recognised by the public as accountable for the strategic direction they provide.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Non-Afl)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, but is the problem not that we have, at immense cost to the public purse, minders who mind minders who are minding more minders? Obviously, we have the unwanted police and crime commissioners elected by less than 20% of voters and supposed to be super-minders. Then there are police authorities, the IPCC, ACPO and the affluent Police Federation all making demands on chief constables and invariably inhibiting their command and control authority and responsibilities. How do we expect such a system to function effectively?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, the Government’s police reforms are working. Crime is down 10% since 2010. We put operational responsibility where it belongs: with the police. We have introduced democratic accountability through the PCCs. The Home Affairs Select Committee report that I referred to found that PCCs’ costs represent the same proportion of the total spending—0.6%—as was spent on the previous system of police authorities.

Crime and Courts Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Maginnis of Drumglass and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Wednesday 12th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am sorry, but I am not prepared to give way. I want the House to hear the argument that has gone through the Government.

We have considered this matter at great length—for too long, as the noble Baroness has suggested—and we have reached the firm view that Section 5 should not be reformed. There is insufficient evidence that the removal of the word “insulting” would be beneficial overall. I regret that this decision will not be welcomed by everyone, but I assure the House that it has been given careful consideration. I regret to say that should the noble Lord, Lord Dear, seek to test the opinion of the House, I will urge noble Lords—

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The letter is available, no doubt, from the noble Lord, Lord Dear, in full. I suggest that noble Lords read the full text of the letter, not just selective quotations.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

In so far as I understand the term “abusive”—most noble Lords will understand that term—can the Minister define in legal terms the word “insulting”? I have not heard in anything that he said tonight a proper definition of “insulting”. I have heard it defined by the Opposition Front Bench. I shall leave my question at that. Can the Minister define “insulting”?

Extradition

Debate between Lord Maginnis of Drumglass and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am not sure whether the noble Lord was in the Government or the Opposition when the then Government introduced this provision within our statute law. It provides us with an ideal opportunity to work alongside our European partners and with the Commission to seek a change in the European arrest warrant, which we are not alone in seeing as very useful and important but none the less deficient. The procedure for doing that is to give notice that you intend to withdraw and then to seek to reapply on the terms of the revised arrangements. That is perfectly straightforward. It was discussed yesterday after the Statement repeated by my noble friend Lord McNally, and I do not see any difficulty whatever. I am surprised that the noble Lord makes the point that he does.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for having repeated the Statement in this House. He will recall the almost innumerable times that I have raised the issue about Gary McKinnon. Despite the fact that we have had a good outcome today, it is quite concerning that it has taken 10 years to get to this stage; and the best that we can get now that we have decided we are not going to extradite him is that at some undefined stage in the future this matter may come before our courts. What does that mean? Is that going to be another 10 years for this young man who suffers from Asperger’s syndrome, the autism spectrum disorder? I chaired an independent review of autism services in Northern Ireland, and I know the strain with which not just the sufferers of the autism syndrome but their families have to live. I implore the Minister to ensure that on top of this Statement this House gets an early indication of the final outcome.

Finally, I note that in line with the Baker review, the Home Secretary’s involvement in extradition cases should be reduced. On a general principle, this suggests to me that we are moving more and more towards government by caucus. There are some 600 Back-Benchers in the other House and some 800 noble Lords in this House. We want to have direct access to government, not access by proxy to some delegated power that we cannot identify.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The noble Lord will know that separation of powers is an important part of our constitution. The Home Secretary is saying that this particular power belongs more properly in the judicial process. I think the sentiment around the House suggests that she has that issue right. On the question of Mr McKinnon and what happens to him now, he will be able to apply for release from his bail conditions but it will be for the Director of Public Prosecutions to decide whether he should be tried in the UK. That is not a matter for government.