Railways: East Coast Main Line

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure my noble friend has heard that loud and clear, and perhaps the ability to move your Lordships’ Chamber for a day away is a challenge that my noble friend might well take up.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, when I first came to this House 17 years ago, the franchise was held by GNER? I remember regularly dining for breakfast on Craster kippers from Northumbria. Could the Minister use his undoubted influence to bring that menu back?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I forever regard contributions from your Lordships’ House as an education in history and in rail history in particular. I shall certainly take that back and suggest to my honourable friend the Rail Minister that he puts that on his to-do list.

Roads: Drink-drive Limit

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am glad to hear that the noble Lord passed the test. I think that the important issue is that there are certain powers that have been devolved and, in that respect, the Scottish Government took a decision to lower the limit. As I have said already, we are looking at the evidence produced from the lowering of that limit but, at the current time, there are no plans to review the limit in England and Wales.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

Does the Minister agree that the rollout of drug-detection devices on the roadside illustrates the amount of misuse of recreational drugs and the danger that this can bring to innocent road users, whether they be cyclists, motorists or, indeed, pedestrians?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to point out that new drug-driving laws have been introduced. The statistics show that, in 2014, there were about 850 prosecutions. On current estimates, that will rise to about 7,000 by the end of this year. A mixture of measures have been introduced ensuring that laws have been reviewed, education has been increased and enforcement has been applied to ensure that, when someone is found to be over the drink-driving or drug-driving limit, the correct penalties are imposed.

Driving: Blood Alcohol Limit

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Wednesday 12th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

Will the Minister comment on the increasing and worrying trend of people driving under the influence of drugs? Will he tell the House when it is likely that a device will be approved for roadside testing in this regard?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, during the passage of the Crime and Courts Bill this afternoon we will be taking the drug-driving provisions through. There are two pieces of equipment to be approved: the station-based drug testing equipment, which is on track to be approved by the Home Office shortly, and the roadside drug testing equipment, which is a little more difficult; we need to wait for the outcome of the expert panel which is looking at the appropriate levels before we can set its specification.

Police Service: New Governance Structure

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

First, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, for securing this important and very timely debate. Policing, of course, is one of the most important functions in any civilised society. If it works well—generally the police go about their work unnoticed—everybody feels good about it. However these days, as has been mentioned, the issue is rarely out of the news and the ensuing publicity can trigger a number of varying emotions. It can lead to a feeling of tragedy and grief, as with the deaths of the two young policewomen in Manchester recently. It can lead to fear, as when a police state operates outside the rule of law using death squads. It can lead to anger when corrupt police turn a blind eye, cover up or leak confidential information. It can lead to praise when heroic officers try or succeed in saving lives, such as the six officers last week who selflessly dived into the river Avon to save the occupants of a motor vehicle. It can lead to relief, as in the recent arrest of Muslim jihadists before they launched a bombing campaign in London described by one of the suspects as “another 9/11”.

In this country the importance of the policing function is recognised by the removal of the right to take industrial action, which is quite right. It is a fundamental right granted to most other workers. It follows that the management, organisation and accountability of the police service is crucial. The whole concept of the new police was laid down in 1829 by Sir Robert Peel when he established the Metropolitan Police as being unarmed civilians in uniform with very few more powers than the citizens they were policing. That principle still applies to this day and we do not have an armed police force. We have, for example, fewer officers trained in the use of firearms than when I joined the police service in the 1960s, but, of course, they are trained a lot better.

On the whole the system has worked well and most informed commentators would agree that we have one of the best law enforcement systems in the world. It has evolved, of course, and this is the best way to develop policing. We have had amalgamations and the abolition of small, corrupt watch committees. Institutional corruption in the Metropolitan Police was tackled by Sir Robert Mark in the 1960s and police authorities were established by the Police Act 1964 with a mix of governors who were elected councillors and magistrates. At present, there are allegations of institutional police misconduct in South Yorkshire during the Hillsborough disaster and also during the miners’ strike. These are, rightly, to be independently investigated. One of the important marks of a civilised democracy is the way in which a state deals with complaints against the police and investigates misconduct.

Now, of course, the coalition Government are imposing a totally revolutionary structure with the election of police and crime commissioners, to make the police even more accountable. Each commissioner will have a lot of power with the right to appoint and sack chief constables. That seems to be mirroring the American system which elects sheriffs, judges and even prosecuting attorneys in many areas of governance. If someone asked your Lordships if they have a better system of law enforcement in the United States than in this country because of this so-called democracy, I doubt whether many of you would think that they had. Giving the new system the benefit of the doubt, the jury is out and we will see in due course how it works. I have serious reservations, as have other noble Lords and I hope that the policy does not lead to political interference in policing operational matters or the appointment of political placemen as chief constables.

My concern is that I firmly believe that the police should not be dragged into the party political arena. As a former senior officer—I declare an interest as a former president of the Police Superintendents Association—I took a neutral stance and served Governments of both colours without any indication of party alignment at that time. I campaigned and lobbied Conservative and Labour policy teams, on behalf of the police service, on issues such as the setting up of a paedophile register, the modification of the right to silence and the abolition of the antiquated double jeopardy law.

The police should be politically neutral, as are the armed services and the monarchy. They serve the Crown and are accountable under the law, and this is how it should be. I fear that under the coalition’s new regime they will be politicised, and that if they do not toe the party line they could be dismissed if the elected commissioner loses confidence in them. The noble Lord, Lord Blair of Boughton, had a right to be suspicious, because that is exactly what happened to him when the newly elected mayor, Boris Johnson, took charge of the police in London. We never found out quite what happened to the position of the noble Lord, Lord Blair, but it is very difficult to work with someone who openly declares that they have lost confidence in you. I hope that this will not become common practice in future.

I differ from the noble Lord, Lord Blair, on his advice to people not to exercise their democratic vote. We should all support democracy because it has been so hard fought for. My advice is that every member of the public should exercise their vote, and that they should vote for the best candidate, regardless of party. I am very fortunate in Durham, where we have a Labour candidate who is also a former deputy chief constable of great experience—in my case, it is a no-brainer. Incidentally, the Labour candidate in Humberside is a big beast who has similar strengths and great experience, contrary to the views of the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, whose brainchild this dog’s breakfast is.

Finally, crime is at its lowest for a quarter of a century and is still falling. It has fallen by one-third in the past decade. This is in the middle of a recession in which we have reduced police numbers, so the police must be doing something right. I believe in the old adage that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I will point out one other fact. The prison population has never been higher. When the noble Lord, Lord Howard, was Home Secretary, he famously said that prison worked. He, too, reduced crime substantially. Perhaps he was right.

Transport: Automatic Number Plate Recognition

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I said that I was out with the police very recently using this technology and we detected an uninsured driver. However, we need to be careful that when we interfere with motorists, and possibly seize or clamp their vehicles, the people doing that work are properly trained and qualified to do so.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

Will the Minister comment on the number of occasions when ANPR has been used in the detection of serious terrorist offences and serious organised crime, where it is extremely valuable?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the use of ANPR. I cannot give examples because I am not briefed on them, but when I went out with the police, I was in an unmarked police car and the police were interested in all types of crime, not just vehicle crime.

Cyclists: Accidents

Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate Excerpts

Wednesday 8th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is true that, in 2011, 12 out of the 16 cyclist fatalities in London involved a goods vehicle, with seven involving construction vehicles, but it is too early to see whether there are any undesirable trends. Both Transport for London and my department will study these matters very carefully indeed.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

Will the Minister indicate what proportion of these accidents are caused by people jumping the red lights, as the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, suggested, and what the Government are doing to encourage the police to enforce the provision?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the last point is the important one. It is an operational matter for the police how they enforce the law. Clearly, the mayor and other authorities will look closely at the police’s performance in driving down road traffic casualties generally, but in particular those of cyclists, because they are vulnerable road users.