Death of a Member: Baroness Thatcher

Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market]

My Lords, there is so much with which I agree in all the many tributes paid to Lady Thatcher today. However, at this stage, I will add only a few examples of my own about her qualities. Bearing in mind the point made by my noble friend Lord Lamont, I believe that this session is providing for future historians examples, hitherto not revealed in public, of the many aspects of this remarkable lady and countering the sometimes false images of her. In so doing, I draw attention to a book that has just recently been published by my noble friend Lady Shephard of Northwold—an admirable and timely book—entitled The Real Iron Lady. The book conveys Baroness Thatcher’s character, characteristics and values through the personal anecdotes and recollections of those who, at various times and in various capacities, worked closely with her or were in contact with her. It is a very useful supplement to some of the illustrations that we have had today.

There are a few of my own anecdotes in the book, which I will not repeat today. However, I will briefly recall this afternoon three others, among many memories, each demonstrating a facet of her strengths. Shortly after I was elected to the House of Commons in 1974, I became a member of the Committee on the Finance Bill, which in those days went on interminably and at great length for many days, through the night in the upper corridors of the House of Commons, going line by line through the various proposals in the Finance Bill itself. Baroness Thatcher was at that point our opposition Front-Bench spokesman on economic affairs, so led on the Finance Bill in the Committee stages. On the day of her election as leader, we were meeting in Committee that afternoon and evening. As some others will recollect, none of us on the Committee expected her to be with us at all that evening, given the many interviews that she had to give and the many celebration drinks and so on with all of her supporters. Robert Carr, later Lord Carr, who was then her Front-Bench deputy on economic affairs, took the lead in Committee. I happened to be on my feet, dealing with a very abstruse and technical point on some aspect of the Finance Bill, in full flow at about half past ten, when to my astonishment the door opened and in walked Margaret Thatcher. She proceeded to sit on the Front Bench for the whole of the rest of our session, through the night, leading from the Front Bench. I was so astonished at her arrival, and so obsessed with my technical details, that I am afraid I mumbled a rather inadequate congratulation on her victory. However, we were all absolutely amazed that she stayed to see the session through. That demonstrated in a remarkable way her dedication and very strong sense of public duty, and her commitment to her duty in the House of Commons.

Secondly, as Minister for Agriculture, I was very much involved in the first full-blown reform of the common agricultural policy. We had many sessions in Brussels on that front. We had got to a point in the middle of the night where we were near to reaching agreement, but it went beyond the negotiating brief agreed for me by the Cabinet. I had to refer back to the Prime Minister for her agreement and authority to go ahead in the way that I wanted to. If I remember correctly, this was at about three o’clock in the morning, so I agonised long and hard about when I should ring her to get her approval. I rang at about 6 am, got straight through and heard her response in a very clear voice. Clearly she had been up for some time, working on her briefs—I very much take the point made on this by the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong. I got her agreement and we were able to go ahead. That demonstrated her indefatigable energy, her immense capacity for work and her decisiveness when convinced.

I will add two separate points. On one occasion in Brussels, I collapsed with a burst ulcer in the middle of the night and had to be carted away briefly to hospital. I was astonished the next morning to receive a very large bowl of flowers and a warm sympathy note from Baroness Thatcher herself. It was another example—we have heard many today—of her kindnesses in so many ways. I was greatly touched.

I very much support—because I had experience of this myself—the points made by my noble friend Lord Fowler and others in relation to the way in which she absolutely tore into you if you were not a master of your brief and in full command not only of the facts but of the arguments. This was a bit disconcerting at first. You thought that she was basically disagreeing and that you would get nowhere, but if you persisted and knew the facts of your brief, she would agree. It took me some time to realise that this was her style, because I recognised that it was what I did to civil servants who put forward briefs to me. I always looked overnight for the points that I was not happy about or did not agree with, and started off with those before in the end agreeing with the conclusions that the paper had made. That was a great feature of all the negotiations that we as individuals had with Baroness Thatcher.

My last example is her final speech in the House of Commons on her resignation. As Leader of the House, I was sitting next to her during the speech. It was obviously an immensely difficult occasion and I was very nervous for her. I need not have worried. She defended her record and achievements with great clarity, power and eloquence. Half way through she was questioned by some opposition Back-Benchers—in particular, if I remember correctly, Dennis Skinner—to whom she responded with great gusto, drawing a huge response from her own Back-Benchers. At the end of the put-down she said something like, “Now, where was I? You know, I’m enjoying this”. It was absolutely typical of the way in which she approached these speeches. It was a remarkable speech, and a performance that displayed the qualities of great courage and conviction that have been referred to frequently today and by which I will always remember her.