European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Lisvane Excerpts

Report: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 30th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Morris of Bolton) (Con)]

My Lords, if Amendment 52A is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 53 for reasons of pre-emption.

[Lord Lisvane (CB)]

My Lords, Amendment 53 in this group is in my name and those of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town and Lady Wheatcroft, the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and—most recently and much to be welcomed—the noble Lord, Lord Callanan. In Committee I had occasion to speak about the legislative Damascus road so I am very glad that in respect of this issue at least the Minister has added this highway to his travel plans.

I respectfully commend my noble and learned friend Lord Judge for his excoriation of Henry VIII clauses. It is a very poor rejoinder to say that the exercise of these powers is subject to the way that Parliament deals with statutory instruments, whether they be affirmative or negative, because too often that is an occasion for merely perfunctory examination. Over a period of time—and I have looked at quite close quarters at the way that the threshold between primary and secondary legislation has moved upwards over the past couple of decades and more—it is ultimately subversive of the primary legislative process.

If my noble and learned friend presses his amendment, I will of course support him, but if he chooses not to do so or fails to convince your Lordships, I will fall back on my amendment, to which the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, has so helpfully added his name.

[Lord Rooker]

My Lords, I had not intended to speak in this debate, which is way above my pay grade, but in answer to the question asked by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge—which I invite the Minister to get briefed on—about how this has been allowed to happen and when, I say that it would not have happened in David Renton’s time. He was the Member for Huntingdonshire in the other place and was still active here at 92, taking parliamentary draftsmen apart on a weekly basis, under the Government of whom I had the privilege to be a member. I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, recalls this. He was meticulous. He chaired a report in the other place in the late 1970s on the drafting of legislation. It was his life’s work. He could pick apart these issues. No one is doing that these days and it is allowing slipshod work by parliamentary draftspeople to get on to the statute book, and it is about time we did more about it.

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Moved by

[Lord Lisvane]

53: Clause 9, page 7, line 11, leave out “(including modifying this Act)”

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Moved by

[Lord Lisvane]

86: Clause 17, page 14, line 14, leave out “the Minister considers appropriate” and insert “is necessary”

[Lord Lisvane]

My Lords, as this amendment is consequential on Amendment 31, which was agreed by your Lordships on 25 April, I beg to move it formally.

Amendment 86 agreed.

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Moved by

[Lord Lisvane]

87: Clause 17, page 14, line 22, leave out “the Minister considers appropriate” and insert “is necessary”

[Lord Lisvane]

My Lords, this amendment is also consequential to Amendment 31. I beg to move.

Amendment 87 agreed.