Rape in Armed Conflict

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their strategy for ensuring that United Kingdom government-funded medical care for women and girls impregnated by rape in armed conflict is non-discriminatory and includes abortion services where they are medically necessary in compliance with international humanitarian law.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, the next debate is timed and the timing is very tight. Would noble Lords who have six minutes to speak make sure that they sit down as the clock hits six—or, preferably, momentarily before—to ensure that the Minister has as much time as possible to reply to the points raised in this important debate?

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[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, the central question that this debate seeks to clarify is the Government’s strategy for ensuring that UK-funded medical care for women and girls impregnated by rape in armed conflict is non-discriminatory and includes the provision of safe abortion services where medically appropriate and necessary. This is the Government’s obligation under international humanitarian law, including the medical mandates of the Geneva conventions. Despite these legal mandates and the life and health-threatening nature of many pregnancies arising out of war rape, girls and women raped in armed conflict are routinely denied safe abortions in humanitarian medical settings, including those funded by DfID.

I am grateful to the international NGO, Global Justice Centre, and its dynamic president, Janet Benshoof, and her staff, for providing me with background information for this debate. I am also grateful to the Minister and her advisers for meeting me to discuss the issues in depth. The Minister has a strong commitment to equality for women and respect for international humanitarian law. I look forward to her reply, which may be influential well beyond this country and enable the UK to provide strong international leadership.

Sexual violence against women is a global evil. In its most pernicious form, rape of girls and women is used as a weapon of choice in the majority of today’s armed conflicts. All rapes are terrible, but rape used as a weapon of war is often fatal. About 70% of conflict-related rapes in the DRC are gang rapes, most accompanied by mutilating injuries to women, including deliberate HIV infection. One-third of the victims of war rape in the DRC are girls under the age of 18 and, as many are raped in the context of sexual slavery, they incur the greatest risk of pregnancy.

Girls and women subject to rape used as a weapon of war are persons “wounded and sick” in armed conflict, guaranteed absolute rights to non-discriminatory, appropriate and necessary medical care under the Geneva conventions. Yet these women war victims are routinely denied, by blanket exclusions, life and health-saving abortions in humanitarian settings, leaving them with the terrible “choice” of risking an unsafe abortion, suicide or being forced to bear the child of their rapists.

War rape is torture. Denying a rape victim an abortion when there is medical need is also capable of amounting to a form of torture. In a recent statement, the World Organisation Against Torture, the largest global network of NGOs working against torture, said:

“To prevent a rape victim from access to abortion is contrary to the absolute prohibition of torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”.

The right at stake is not a right to abortion; it is the right of everyone “wounded and sick” in armed conflicts, including women, to appropriate and necessary life and health-saving medical care. Plastic surgery, blood transfusions, amputations, prostheses, dental treatment and penile reconstruction surgery are all medical procedures protected by international law when needed by persons “wounded and sick” in armed conflict. The same applies, or should apply, to the termination of pregnancies where the continuing of a pregnancy creates a serious risk to the life and physical and mental health of the raped woman or girl.

Why are women raped in war being denied access to appropriate and necessary medical care by means of safe abortions where the continuation of the pregnancy threatens the life and health of the woman or girl? Two powerful forces perpetuate the anti-abortion medical protocols and sweepingly broad exclusions imposed on the provision of healthcare to women raped in war—the United States Government and the ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross. The United States imposes a “no abortion” total ban in its foreign aid, requiring all recipients, including foreign Governments, the ICRC and UN entities, to pledge not to discuss abortion or provide abortions with US funds. The US has eliminated previously existing exceptions allowing abortions for rape or to save the life of the woman.

The United States and the UK largely fund the same humanitarian organisations. Only one of the top 10 recipients of DfID humanitarian funding, the World Health Organisation, segregates its US funds from DfID and other donor funds to ensure the integrity of its abortion-related work. The ICRC, whose largest single donor is the United States, is clear in its internal operational guidelines for ICRC staff treating women victims of sexual violence in armed conflict that its medical staff “do not perform abortions”. The guidelines further discourage abortion referrals on the ground that making such referrals might impair the reputation of the ICRC in the conflict country.

The ICRC is DfID’s partner of choice in conflict situations and the largest recipient of DfID aid to humanitarian organisations. I was one of 43 British parliamentarians, including three former leaders of my party, who wrote to President Obama in February 2012 recalling the absolute rights of girls and women raped in war to non-discriminatory care, including abortions, under the Geneva and torture conventions. We requested the President to lift the US abortion ban on aid to war victims. To date, he has not yet done so. Denying medically needed abortions for victims of rape in war, including girls targeted for forced pregnancy as an element of genocide, is barbaric. Our Government should fill the vacuum of global leadership on this issue by ensuring that DfID’s humanitarian aid advances, and does not undermine, the rights of women raped in war to non-discriminatory medical care, which includes abortions.

The issue has been raised in Parliament since 2010. The Government have expressed their concerns about the US abortion ban, noting that it now prohibits abortions in cases of rape or to save a woman’s life. However, the Government appear neither to have taken steps to ensure in practice that UK funds are not used to support facilities that provide discriminatory care for women raped in war, nor requested the US to lift the ban on victims of war rape.

DfID’s aid programme apparently defers to local anti-abortion laws. This breaches the UK’s international humanitarian law obligations when the aid is supporting medical care for war victims. DfID-funded humanitarian entities such as the ICRC do not even provide abortions for war rape victims in conflict countries where abortions are legal for rape victims, as in the Sudan.

The Minister’s Written Answers and those of the honourable Lynne Featherstone MP on this issue are inconsistent about whether international humanitarian law is trumped by incompatible national law. Time prevents me from citing the inconsistent answers but I have given the references to my noble friend the Minister. I ask her to clarify the apparent contradiction in those answers and to explain the following points: first, how DfID policy implements UK law, as set out in the UK military manual, that national laws are relevant in conflict situations only so far as they do not conflict with international humanitarian law mandates; secondly, whether DfID monitoring or assessments of the performance of funded humanitarian entities includes, when applicable, assessing their compliance with the medical mandates of international humanitarian law; thirdly, whether DfID is engaged in any discussions with the ICRC on the question of the ICRC segregating its compromised US funding from that of DfID and other donors to provide abortions for war victims, or whether in any other way the ICRC can ensure that women war rape victims treated by the ICRC are able to have access to abortion services from non-ICRC medical providers. Fourthly, do the Government have any plans to make a request to President Obama to lift the abortion ban on women raped in armed conflict as a matter of US compliance with the Geneva conventions?

Finally, can the Minister confirm that excluding access to abortions for women raped in war where such medical treatment is appropriate and necessary is discriminatory and likely to breach the Geneva conventions and, most important, that international humanitarian law takes precedence over conflicting national laws which authorise torture or serious ill treatment by banning medically necessary abortions for the victims of rape in armed conflict?

Treatment of Homosexual Men and Women in the Developing World

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for his powerful and comprehensive speech. I declare a number of interests. I am a patron of the Human Dignity Trust; I am also a friend of the Sigrid Rausing Trust and on the board of the OSI Justice Initiative, both of which have given vital funding support to the Human Dignity Trust, without which the work could not be done.

This is a unique human rights issue. There is an overwhelming body of comparative domestic and international case law which treats provisions that purport to criminalise private, consensual, adult homosexual conduct as contrary to fundamental human rights and constitutional protection. This is in no sense about the imposition of western values in supporting decriminalisation; all that is being asked is that each state uphold its own properly understood guarantees of dignity, privacy and equality.

I am to be followed by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester. Whatever the different views on gay marriage within the church, I am sure he will confirm that there is no disagreement among the Bishops that criminalisation is wrong and unjustifiable.

This is also an important refugee issue. The words of wisdom of the two Scottish members of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom in the Cameroon case that was decided in 2011 warrant repetition. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, explained:

“For many years the risk of persecution in countries where it now exists seemed remote. It was the practice for leaders in these countries simply to insist that homosexuality did not exist. This was manifest nonsense, but at least it avoided the evil of persecution. More recently, fanned by misguided but vigorous religious doctrine, the situation has changed dramatically. The ultra-conservative interpretation of Islamic law that prevails in Iran is one example. The rampant homophobic teaching that right-wing evangelical Christian churches indulge in throughout much of Sub-Saharan Africa is another. The death penalty has just been proposed in Uganda for persons who engage in homosexual practices. Two gay men who had celebrated their relationship in a public engagement ceremony were recently sentenced to 14 years’ imprisonment in Malawi. They were later pardoned in response to international pressure by President Mutharika, but he made it clear that he would not otherwise have done this as they had committed a crime against the country's culture, its religion and its laws. Objections to these developments have been greeted locally with derision and disbelief”.

The noble and learned Lord continued:

“The fact is that a huge gulf has opened up in attitudes to and understanding of gay persons between societies on either side of the divide. It is one of the most demanding social issues of our time. Our own government has pledged to do what it can to resolve the problem, but it seems likely to grow and to remain with us for many years. In the meantime more and more gays and lesbians are likely to have to seek protection here, as protection is being denied to them by the state in their home countries. It is crucially important that they are provided with the protection that they are entitled to under the Convention”.

This is a very different issue. Lord Rodger, the other Scottish member of the Supreme Court, also went into the extent to which we are obliged under asylum law to give protection to gay people who are facing persecution elsewhere. We have a direct, practical interest in this country in eliminating elsewhere persecution of gay people who otherwise will have to seek safe haven here. I hope that this debate will help to stimulate the work already being done by the Government.

I have written to my noble friend the Minister with some questions in order that she might be able to seek advice on some of them, and I very much hope that she can. They are: where does the decriminalisation of homosexuality across the globe fit into the Government’s priorities? Should the protection of the LGBT communities from persecutory harm not be a specific priority of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office? Can the Minister clarify exactly how the Government work with the Commonwealth to promote decriminalisation? Can she also clarify the Government’s position on aid conditionality as it relates to serious systemic violations of gay and lesbian people’s rights in countries which receive UK aid? Do the Government agree that the criminalisation of consensual sexual relations between adult men in private is a violation of international human rights law and the rule of law? Finally—I apologise for so many questions, but at least I have given notice of them—will the Government consider joining as a partner Government making a donation to the Global Equality Fund established in December 2001 by the United States State Department to advance and protect the human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons around the world?

Violence Against Women

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Thursday 13th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to take part in this debate and I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Gould, on introducing a subject that unites the whole House. I am particularly pleased to take part in the debate because I do not see among the names of those who will speak any of the filibusteros who emulate Cato the Younger in deciding that the best way of obstructing the proceedings of the House is to talk on and on. This is a time-limited debate and, because on the whole women are more sensible than men, I expect that it will be as courteous as we have come to expect.

Among those who are speaking are the noble Baronesses, Lady Greengross and Lady Howe of Idlicote, both of whom took part in the historic debate that took part on 26 January 2007, when this House united in seeking to obtain civil protection against forced marriage. The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, was not able to be here for that, but she of course had played an important role in developing the work of the Forced Marriage Unit and its guidelines, and in her absence the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton of Upholland, stretched the limits of ministerial collective responsibility in encouraging me in a Private Member’s Bill and eventually in persuading the Prime Minister Tony Blair to reverse himself and support the Bill, which became law.

I will deal with one matter that is raised in the Motion, which is about reform of the law, and suggest ways in which this country could use the Forced Marriage Act as a model for export within Europe and especially in the Indian subcontinent. The problems of domestic violence are of course not unique to any one country or religion, race or ethnic group. Because some of the aspects of domestic violence, such as the sexual grooming of young girls, children and so forth, have recently been linked with a particular section of the community, and because the right honourable Jack Straw has chosen to come out and say that this is a particular problem involving young Pakistani men, I want to emphasise that it is important not to indulge in ethnic or religious stereotypes. The problem of violence against women is an ancient problem that afflicts all societies, cultures and religions. You do not have to look to any one to stigmatise them. It is important that that should be said.

Forced marriage is only one example—a gross one—of domestic violence at its worst. Forced marriage is a crime. It is not labelled as such but it is a crime when it leads to murder, kidnapping, abduction and offences against the person of one kind and another. I agreed with the previous Government—I am sure the present Government agree as well—that criminal law is not the best way of tackling problems of domestic violence unless one can prove a case to a jury to a criminal standard of proof, which is very hard to do. In this House, we managed eventually to persuade the Government and the other House to deal with it through civil protection instead of relying entirely on the criminal law.

The advantage of civil protection and family law is that it does not involve any public dishonouring of families. It does not lead to victims being permanently separated from their families. It can be dealt with protectively and not punitively. It should diminish the problems by acting as a deterrent through contempt of court for those who violate the forced marriage protection orders. In this country, we have established a radical, new, innovative piece of legislation of which this House in particular should be proud.

I also think that the Forced Marriage Unit guidelines are now superb and I commend them to any noble Lords who have not seen them. They are detailed, practical, well directed and have grown out of the work that was done by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland. The problem is that these issues transcend national boundaries. They cannot be settled in any one country. They require co-operation across frontiers and mutual assistance by governments, judges and legislators.

At the moment within the Council of Europe—the 47 countries from Ireland in the west to Azerbaijan in the east—work is being done on a domestic violence convention. I am sure that the British Government are playing their part in that. My problem with the convention is that it emphasises criminal sanctions too much and does not sufficiently focus on the need for civil protection. I do not expect the Minister to respond to any of this today but I hope that those who are engaged in negotiating that convention will explain to our European partners the need for civil measures and not mainly a reliance on criminal ones. Within Europe we ought to be able to get not uniform but compatible civil protection measures in all 47 countries. That should be our aim under an umbrella convention.

That is one bit. The other is to do with places such as the Indian subcontinent. Many of those involved in the problems of forced marriage and honour crimes are, because of the history of migration to this country, connected with India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. It is really important that we work with those countries’ governments and judges to get matching legislation so that if, for example, a young girl or boy is taken to one of those countries fraudulently in order to be given a partner that they must marry, there are measures in those countries that allow them to co-operate with the authorities in this country to get the victim protected and back to this country.

The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, managed to arrange a judicial protocol with the then Chief Justice of Pakistan, which you will find in a leaflet in the Foreign Office. Yet when I mentioned this to a Pakistani lawyer friend, she said that the trouble is that that initiative has never been put into legislation in Pakistan and has been treated as illegal. If that is the case, it is really important to persuade the Governments of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh and anyone else connected with the problem—but especially those countries because they are our good friends and neighbours in this area—to legislate, with legislation similar to ours. I am sure it can be done. It just requires some political will and initiative to do it. This ought to be, without being imperial, a major export. I hope that that part of reform will be taken seriously by this Government.

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[Baroness Scotland of Asthal]

My Lords, in replying, I declare an interest as patron of the Corporate Alliance Against Domestic Violence, chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Domestic and Sexual Violence, and former chair of the Inter-Ministerial Group on Domestic Violence. I immediately congratulate very warmly my noble friend Baroness Gould on securing this debate and introducing it in such a comprehensive, fluent and informed manner, setting the tone and scope for this debate so that many noble Lords could fly under her wings and explore some vital issues. I also congratulate and thank all those who have participated in this debate so far, before the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, replies. Most of us are very old friends. We have been on this journey for a long time and it is good to see that we are all still here, although perhaps sad that we have not yet expunged violence against women.

As this debate has demonstrated, this is not an issue on which we have ever divided on party political lines. It is one that unites us in our determination to eradicate domestic violence and every other form of violence against women and young people. That was very much the tone in which we did battle together against this vicious crime during the last Labour Government. We did not hesitate to draw on the wisdom of many in this House, not least the noble Lord, Lord Lester, on forced marriage. We did that without repentance, although I would say to him very gently that he may have forgotten that the initial Bill was all about crime and our issue was that we thought it should be civil.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

I am sorry to correct the noble and learned Baroness, but that is not quite right. The initial Bill was about harassment; it was never about crime.

[Baroness Scotland of Asthal]

My Lords, we will differ, but we will absolutely agree that we ended up in just the right place. I also agree with him that that legislation is more than fit for emulation, because it does what is prescribed on the tin. It is very effective, and delicately enables people to have their rights trenchantly supported but in a way that is sympathetic and effective. That is a demonstration of how well we have been able to work together. Noble Lords will remember that, when we first started to work on this issue in a very concentrated way in 2003 and 2004, we were met with some pretty stark statistics, some of which have been referred to already: one in four women, one in six men, 120 women and 20 men dying, and 89 per cent of repeat victimisation being of women.

The concerted effort that was made by all—those in the Government, those in local government, those in the third sector by individuals—enabled us, together in partnership, to make a strategic change. All of us remembered—and it has rightly been said in this debate—that this was not just a national but an international issue. As the World Health Organisation made clear, domestic violence was the greatest cause of morbidity in women and children globally. That had to be changed.

In the 13 years of Labour government, that determined action, together with all those who helped us, brought about some real progress. The instance of domestic violence has fallen by 64 per cent since 1997. There was, as the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, has already mentioned, a 54 per cent increase in the number of convictions for rape from 2000 to 2008. Our understanding of the economic cost of domestic violence to our country was stark. Professor Sylvia Walby, as many in this debate will remember, helped us greatly with her assessment in 2004 that the economic cost of domestic violence to our country was £23 billion: £3 billion of which was to public service, £2.7 billion to business, and £17 billion in pain, injury, loss and suffering. The models that we put together, as we have already been told, started in Wales. Cardiff was the launch pad of much of the good practice. However, we learnt that it has to be holistic. Everyone—all departments and entities—had to be involved.

As a result of that work, when Sylvia Walby went back to assess the cost of domestic violence at the end of 2009 we saw that we had together done something quite remarkable; we had reduced the cost of domestic violence by £7.5 billion. She used exactly the same model, so when it has been said in this debate that the UN identified that we can change violence against women, we know that that is right.

How did we do it? Many have already mentioned that in this debate: by introducing specialist services such as the specialist domestic violence courts. I absolutely understand that a number of courts are closing, but will the noble Baroness be kind enough to indicate whether any of the courts to close will be domestic violence courts? They have been pivotal in bringing about significant change, as had already been noted.

There were specialist domestic violence courts, specialist police officers, specialist prosecutors, the independent domestic violence advisers, the independent sexual violence advisers and, really importantly, the MARACs—the multi-agency risk assessment conferences—which enabled us to interdict the violence early, the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley. Prevention is far better than cure. The point was emphasised so succinctly in the gap by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, who pinpointed the great work that we were able to do on health by helping professionals in the health service to identify and address it in vitro, and thereafter, really making a huge difference.

We know some of the things that we must do to intervene. We know that rape happens in marriage, and that those who are involved in violence against women often continue that violence outside the home and are a threat to others. The nexus between those two things is of great importance.

Having commended the Government for continuing their commitment to independent domestic violence, MARACs, the independent sexual violence advisers and the rape referral centres, I ask whether the noble Baroness has any assessment of the changes that will be made in local authority funding. Many of us believe that we are almost at a tipping point. We had the recipe and we were applying it. There was a lot of vigour and we were almost there. I share with the House and the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, who is passionately committed to this area and has been so not only from the moment she sat on the Front Benches opposite but for many years, the view that we may be at risk for some of the reasons touched on by the noble Baroness, Lady Prosser. I am hearing some very worrying issues.

The noble Baroness and the House will know that last year we saw a helpful decline in the number of people in many of the refuges. They were emptying. It was a downward trajectory. We are now told that that trajectory is going in the opposite direction. One refuge in particular was 100 per cent full and the only place in which a vulnerable woman and her children had to stay was in her car outside a police station, because there was no safer place for her to be. Just a year before, the refuge had had 60 per cent occupancy. It is a worrying indication.

I asked whether the Corporate Alliance Against Domestic Violence had any further information, and I have been told that right across the country, in the east and the west, it is hearing similar stories. Independent domestic violence advisers are being reduced. The noble Baroness will know that they have been key to prevention, risk assessment and change. In Portsmouth, I am given to understand that there were 10 independent domestic violence advisers, and it looks likely that they will be reduced to three. That pattern is happening all over the country. It has been suggested that the cause is that although local authorities were aware that there should be cuts, many of them had planned for cuts over the whole period of the Parliament, but the burden of frontloading those cuts means that they cannot do what they want to do. I commend the Government on their invitation to local authorities to consider very seriously indeed the consequences of those cuts. Can the noble Baroness say a little more about what she and her Government propose to do to ensure that the changes that we all worked so hard to implement remain in place, because every £1 spent on these services saves at least £6.

The noble Baroness was asked a further question by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, and if I may I will ask her a little more. The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, discussed the effect of the internet on the sexual exploitation of our children. The noble Baroness will remember that it has been proposed that the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, an organisation that has been praised by everyone, be subsumed into the Serious Organised Crime Agency. Will that in fact happen, bearing in mind that the move has been wholeheartedly condemned by so many, and is there likely to be a rethinking of the issue?

On trafficking, we would welcome a response from the Government on how they now propose to deal with the directive. The noble Baroness will remember that many on this side of the House fought very hard indeed to encourage the international community to work together on this, so it is a great sadness to us to see that the voice of Her Majesty’s Government is not championing the issue right out in front.

We have had an extremely good debate. I look forward very much to the noble Baroness’s answers to the numerous questions that she has been asked, and I should say that I agree with all of them.

Equality Act 2010

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, I was one of those who, when the previous Government were in power, argued very strongly for dealing with this ancient source of injustice in India and now here. Does the Minister agree with my noble friend Lord Avebury that the report shows that there is unfair discrimination based on caste, or the absence of it? Will she agree, as did the previous Government, to meet the Dalit community’s organisations so that they can hear first-hand, as did the previous Government, about the injustices that the present situation is causing?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend will be aware that during the passage of the Equality Bill there were consultations and meetings with people right across the caste system to ensure that both sides of the argument were put. I urge all noble Lords to allow the Government to consider the report carefully. I think that there will be a fair outcome if we see how it impacts on the wider context of legislation in our country.

Women: Economic Policies

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

We are in difficult times but we will protect the most vulnerable as best we can.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

Is the Minister aware that during the passage of the Equality Bill the previous Government completely failed to tackle the problem that the provisions of the laws dealing with unequal pay for work of equal value for women are tortuous and unworkable? Do the Government have any plans to look at those provisions with a view to making the law effective and persuading employers to look at their pay scales and practices to eliminate direct and indirect sex discrimination?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, we are ending the pay secrecy clauses and working with businesses to ensure that they voluntarily work towards ensuring that pay between men and women is far more equalised. The equality duty that we will bring in in April will ensure that organisations are more transparent in how they are engaging across the board, not only on gender issues but on minority and disability issues, to make sure that everyone will be able to access a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.

Socioeconomic Equality Duty

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Baroness asks a lot of questions and I am not sure that I will be able to answer them all. We are looking at how we can manage the budget deficit so that the most vulnerable are least of all affected. That is why we have taken 880,000 people out of the tax system altogether and that is why we are introducing increased child tax credits for the poorest families to mitigate some of the things that they are going to have to face, because for the 13 years that the party opposite was in government poverty increased. We did see an increase in the numbers. So I am sorry to say that this is not an issue on which the party opposite can boast, say that they addressed it and that we are not now addressing it. We are all trying to address this serious problem.

We supported the Child Poverty Act and we were committed to implementing it. The Labour Government repeatedly missed their targets. It is very easy to sit here and say that what we are doing is gesture politics and that what the previous Government did was right. What we have to take on board is that we have huge deficits that we must respond to. We have a duty to support the most vulnerable people and we as a Government take that very seriously. In her speech yesterday morning, my noble friend pointed out that local authorities are best placed to know where and how to spend their resources. They are best placed to know how to react to the needs of their local communities. I do not think that we need a diktat from central government through some clause that will force local authorities into a tick-box bureaucracy that, to be truthful, does not answer any of those questions.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, I am sure that it was not impoliteness on the part of the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, that she made no mention of the contribution of the Liberal Democrats in getting the Equality Act through Parliament. I pay tribute to her for the major part she played in that. But she will know of course that the original impulse for the statute came from us. I am sure that she will also remember that when we discussed the socioeconomic duty, I explained how it was a piece of political window dressing and windy rhetoric that was unenforceable in practice. I made it clear in Committee that we would support it only if the government of the day were able to give it practical meaning. Is the Minister aware that Article 45 of the constitution of the Republic of Ireland, as I pointed out in Committee, contains equally windy stuff about socioeconomic whatnot, which no Irish person whom I have ever met knows about or has derived the slightest practical value from.

I would have expected Labour to commend the Government for having on 1 October brought in almost all of the Equality Act, which I support, and for being committed to bringing in the public sector duty after proper consideration. The Statement repeatedly says what the limits of law are, which I agree with. Am I correct that the policy of the coalition Government is that equality law is a necessary but not sufficient condition for attaining proper equality of opportunity and treatment, that it requires the voluntary action of public authorities, the private sector and ordinary men and women to make it happen, and that the coalition is committed to achieving that?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I could not have put it better than my noble friend Lord Lester.

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[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, I regret that the clause is going but, contrary to any contributions made so far, I commend the Government on their honesty in deciding to abandon it for the very simple reason that the other policies that they have announced, particularly in relation to downsizing the public service, mean that, as the noble Baroness said, they would not be able to implement the policy. Is it not true—I look to her for an honest answer—that the bulk of the half a million people whose jobs are to go will be the low-paid and women, and indeed many, particularly in London and the south-east, will be from ethnic minorities?

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

Can the noble Lord explain which part of Section 1 of the Act would in his view be violated in a way that would lead to legal consequences?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, I try to answer as honestly as I can. I simply reassure him that we believe firmly in the Equality Act. We supported the then Government to ensure that it got through, and we have put into place as many protections as we can for the vulnerable and the low-paid.

Public Bodies: Reform

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Thursday 14th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I understand the noble Lord’s experience in these matters and respect it greatly. There is a view, which the Government hold, that there is duplication between these two bodies, which has led to unnecessary duplication of effort. The merger of the two bodies will make them more efficient. There will be ongoing consultation on the way in which this merger will take place and how the new body will be structured in order to make it effective. I am grateful for the noble Lord's comments. They will be taken on board.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there will be widespread support for what is contained in the Statement about retaining the Equality and Human Rights Commission but radically reforming it? Is he aware, too, that the independence guarantees, which I personally persuaded the previous Government to write into the Equality Act 2006, were not meant to produce a situation of irresponsibility? Will he ensure that Ministers and civil servants bring home to the chairman and commissioners that they will no longer receive grants in aid unless they can demonstrate value for money in advance of the grants and not only by some kind of ex post facto review?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. Widespread concern has been expressed in the press about the Equality and Human Rights Commission and its role. We are proposing to retain it, precisely because we believe that a regulator is needed to help to enforce the laws governing equality and anti-discrimination. But we believe that the EHRC’s remit is too wide and that it has not always been well managed. That is why we are proposing substantially to reform it.