Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties and Public Authorities) Regulations 2017

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Grand Committee

I am very pleased that these regulations are before us today, and it is good that we are bringing them in for the public sector. However, I am sure the Minister will agree that far more needs to be done, and at a faster pace than we have seen so far, so that we can close the gender pay gap. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill (LD)]

My Lords, nothing that I am about to say should be interpreted as anything other than strong support for the regulations, but I think some history is important. In 1970 Barbara Castle introduced an Equal Pay Act that was virtually useless. In 1974 I left the Bar to work for a Labour Government, with Roy Jenkins, to pioneer sex and race discrimination legislation. We were forbidden to do anything about the Equal Pay Act, which in any case was to be brought in within five years of 1970. So in 1975 a virtually useless Equal Pay Act from a Labour Government was brought into force. What then happened was that it was challenged under EU law by the EU Commission, as a result of which it became necessary in Margaret Thatcher’s time to amend the useless Equal Pay Act in order to deal with different work of equal value. I do not think any noble Lords in the Committee are old enough to remember this, but there was a drunken Minister in that Government at the time who introduced the regulations while barely able to speak. When the regulations came in, they were tortuous and virtually unenforceable.

In 2010 we in the Liberal Democrats supported Labour in getting the Equality Act 2010 on to the statute book. Again, we tried to do something about the tortuous and unenforceable equal pay legislation, and the best that we could do—the best that Harriet Harman could do—was something along the lines of these regulations today. The idea was that, at the very least, transparency might be able to assist in tackling the gender pay gap. That was the idea, and of course we support it; it was the idea of the coalition Government, and it is the idea now.

I am sorry to say, as someone married to a vegetarian, that the problem is that there is no beef. The problem is that you can have all the transparency you like but, unless something is done to enforce the law and tackle discriminatory patterns in employment, promotion, recruitment and pay, women will continue to suffer from unequal pay for work of equal value. If Members do not agree with that, they have only to read the admirable gender pay gap information regulations impact assessment from 2017—I think there is no separate impact assessment for these regulations—which explains why mere voluntarism will not work. It explains how they tried to persuade employers of a voluntary approach but it failed and they tried to explain that they hope that these regulations or the other ones that we have already approved will compel action where required.

I promise noble Lords that they will not. How do I know that? I have had four or five decades of experience in trying to tackle patterns of discrimination. We gave the Equality and Human Rights Commission wide powers for strategic enforcement. Those powers were stronger than those given to the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Commission for Racial Equality and the Disability Rights Commission. However, those powers have not been used. It is all very well for the Equality and Human Rights Commission, as the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, has said, to call for an action plan, but what is actually needed is an action plan by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which was set up with ample powers that it does not use. I am not saying this behind the back of the commission. David Isaac, its admirable chairman, knows my views and I think he agrees with them.

I remember, as part of the ancient history I am trying to summarise, that there was a wonderful businessman called Oscar Hahn. He was, I think, the head of the Midlands Employers Federation. In those days we were trying to persuade employers and trade unions that there should be legislation to tackle these problems. Oscar Hahn made a wonderful speech in which he said something like: “Archbishop William Temple said: ‘Whenever I travel on the Underground, I always intend to buy a ticket but the fact that there is a ticket collector at the end of the line just clinches it’. In the same way legislation and its enforcement just clinches the good intentions of employers and trade unions”. I think that is right.

We are dealing today, rightly, with gender equality and with the gender pay gap. The noble Baroness, Lady McGregor-Smith—a Conservative Member of this House—recently produced a devastating review that deals not with gender but ethnicity. She has called it, The Time For Talking Is Over. Now Is The Time To Act. Although today we are dealing with gender not ethnicity, I urge Members of this House, and especially the Government, to take very seriously what she says. She says:

“The time for talking is over”.


I agree. She says: “The reward is huge”. I agree. She says:

“Daylight is the best disinfectant”.


I agree, provided that there is some enforcement. She says:

“We need to stop hiding behind the mantle of ‘unconscious bias’”.


I agree, and that applies to gender and race. She says:

“The public sector must use its purchasing power to drive change”.


Again, I agree. She then explains why she has been trying to persuade people to take voluntary action but has found that it is not good enough. She concludes that legislative measures are necessary. The Government’s response to her report, as I understand it, has been to give voluntarism further time in dealing with ethnicity.

I am now 80 years old and I have been campaigning for race equality since 1964. I have to say to the Committee that voluntarism, as the gender pay gap illustrates, will not succeed. Therefore, even if the Government will not act, even if Parliament will not act, I very much hope that the Equality and Human Rights Commission will use its resources for strategic law enforcement so that the regulations we are about to approve will be given bite by the enforcement agency. I hope that what I have just said will not seem controversial.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank both noble Lords for their thoughtful contributions. I think there is broad support for what we are bringing forward but I shall answer some of the specific questions the noble Lords asked.

The first question from the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, was about why the number of employees was not lower than 250. We estimate that the obligations for authorities with 250 or more employees will affect more than 3.8 million employees in the public sector, and that means they will be covered by the new gender pay gap reporting requirements. Indeed, the combined coverage of these regulations and the Equality Act 2010 (Gender Pay Gap Information) Regulations 2017 will be over 15 million employees in 9,000 organisations, representing nearly half the total workforce. In addition, public bodies with more than 150 employees are already required to report on the diversity of their workforce and are encouraged to publish gender pay gap information.

We are keen in the first instance to place the same requirements of gender pay reporting across all employers to ensure consistency and comparability, so we have started in the public sector with that 250 threshold, which matches the threshold in Section 78 of the Equality Act. However, we will keep the threshold under review, and I think that review period will be reviewed by the Minister for Women and Equalities five years after commencement. Although this is the formal point for reviewing the new obligations, we will be closely monitoring compliance on a more regular basis to ensure that the measures are effective and working properly. With regard to what the response was to the public consultation about the proposed scope, the majority agreed that gender pay gap obligations should apply to authorities with 250 or more employees.

The noble Baroness asked whether the reporting requirements were too narrow. The regulations do not require mandatory equality objectives connected to gender pay gap data or, indeed, action plans. However, all employers will be strongly encouraged to publish information on how they intend to tackle the gender pay gap in their organisations. Many public bodies have actually indicated that they are keen to publish that narrative alongside their gender pay gap calculations, so that they can provide more context for any gender pay differences and highlight work to reduce any gaps.

Transparency may not be a silver bullet, as the noble Lord said, but it will incentivise employers to analyse the drivers behind their gender pay gap and explore the extent to which their own policies and practices may be contributing to it. The regulations that will apply to the public sector will not include an explicit requirement for a senior official to sign a statement or authenticate an organisation’s gender pay gap, but this is in line with the existing obligations under the specific duties regulations.

The noble Baroness asked what assessment has been made of the effect of tribunal fees for people with protected characteristics. The review of the employment tribunal fees, published on 31 January this year, confirms that the objectives have been broadly met and that the current scheme is generally working effectively and operating lawfully. However, that does not mean there is no room for improvement. In particular, the fall in claims and the evidence that some people have found fees off-putting have persuaded us that some action is necessary, so we launched a consultation on 31 January regarding the proposal to widen the support available to people under the help with fees scheme. This would help people with low incomes and is expected to particularly benefit women, disabled people and people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds, who figure disproportionately among those in low-income groups.

The noble Baroness also asked: will the Government be publishing league tables to name and shame employers? The public will be able to search the government website to check whether employers in scope have complied with the regulations and compare them with other employers in the same sector. We will consider the most effective way to present the published information in discussion with a wide range of stakeholders but, as I am sure the noble Baroness and the noble Lord know, the press soon get hold of such figures, so we can probably rely on them to highlight the success and failure stories.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

I hope that we can also rely on the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which is funded for this purpose. I forgot to mention the issue of access to tribunals. It is my view as a lawyer that it is unlawful and an obstruction of justice to do what has been done to the employment tribunal fees, because they deter people with discrimination cases. I bet that if it goes to the European Court of Human Rights it will declare it to be incompatible, so I am glad that the Government are moving on that.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Lord for that and will come to the EHRC shortly to give a bit more detail.

The noble Baroness also asked why the Government have rejected the recommendation from the Women and Equalities Select Committee to reduce the gender pay gap. We appreciate and recognise the important work that the committee does on this issue, and we carefully considered its recommendations. The report makes a number of recommendations for the Government, several of which have already been actioned. For example, the right to request flexible working already allows those working fewer than full-time hours to request the opportunity to work more. Many of the recommendations made by the Select Committee would involve significant cost to businesses and we are keen not to place too heavy a burden on employers at this time.

We crossed into the equal pay realm. I thought I might make the point at this juncture that pay discrimination and the size of an employer’s gender pay gap are two quite different things, but I am sure that the noble Lord knows that, given his background.

The noble Baroness talked about pregnancy and maternity discrimination. That is unlawful as well as unacceptable and has no place in today’s society. The Government are working with a range of partners, including the EHRC and ACAS to promote opportunities for women, including pregnant women and new mothers. That will ensure that female talent is recognised and rewarded, and make more employers aware of their legal obligations.

I turn to the EHRC’s failure to ensure compliance. The EHRC takes a proportionate approach to enforcement, resolving many matters via pre-enforcement work and using its formal enforcement powers when absolutely necessary. It also takes a strategic approach to enforcement, focusing on those issues where it can have an impact on systemic, persistent and/or pervasive inequalities. Many less strategic cases are resolved through pre-enforcement work, involving discussions with organisations to encourage them to meet their obligations.

The noble Lord, Lord Lester, may draw some comfort from the fact that when the Women and Equalities Select Committee examined the EHRC’s chair and CEO in January, it asked searching questions about why its enforcement and compliance work, potentially involving legal interventions, seemed so limited. The EHRC’s chair, David Isaac, who the noble Lord mentioned, agreed that putting more resource into enforcement and compliance is a priority for him. Let us see what progress it makes in the coming year.

Finally, the noble Lord mentioned the Ruby McGregor-Smith review. It is an industry-led review, so we are going into a slightly different realm, but I shall not split hairs about that. The Government believe that non-legislative solutions are the right approach for now, but we will monitor progress and stand ready to act if sufficient progress is not delivered.

I am sure that noble Lords will remember this time last year, when the number of women on boards was a push for the Government and we tried to do it in a non-legislative way. That yielded very good results, so we always try the non-legislative way first before taking action, but we will always take action if we need to.

I hope that noble Lords are satisfied with those responses and thank them for taking part in this debate.