National Minimum Wage (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Leong and Earl of Minto

Tuesday 14th November 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the overview and explanation of the statutory instrument. We on this side very much welcome this instrument. I thank my noble friend Lady Donaghy for her contribution and for bringing us up to speed on what happened 25 years ago.

As many noble Lords know, the national minimum wage was introduced on 1 April 1999 by the last Labour Government. It creates an obligatory threshold pay level. At the time, the party opposite argued that it would cost millions of jobs, but, 25 years later, this has not happened. In fact, the national minimum wage has had negative effects on the overall UK labour market. Today, around 1.6 million workers—roughly about 5% of all UK workers—are paid at or below the minimum wage. When there is such high inflation and a sustained cost of living crisis, this is just not good enough. Employers should be encouraged to recognise that making work pay with a real living wage and strong workers’ rights is good for growth and for the economy.

This statutory instrument removes the option for a person who resides in a domestic family home, but who is not a member of the family, to be asked to do work in a household without remuneration. This means that a potential loophole by which the unscrupulous employer could require someone living with them and treated as a member of the family to unreasonably be expected to perform jobs in the home without being paid at all. From 1 April 2024, such tasks will now have to be paid at the relevant band of the national minimum wage.

Does the Minister have figures for how many employees —nannies, au pairs and other domestic workers—can expect their income to increase as a result of this change in legislation? Can he also indicate which channels or organisations the Government plan to utilise to alert affected workers to their new rights, especially as I imagine some may not be British citizens or have any union representation? Given the sensitivity of employee-employer relationships in a domestic situation, can the Minister inform your Lordships’ House what provisions are in place to support workers who might find themselves in vulnerable situations, or even potentially homeless, if their employer refuses to recognise their right to be fairly paid as a result of these changes, since their access to legal advice may be very limited? Finally, as well as making people aware of their rights and offering support when made aware, will there be any more proactive steps to ensure that as few people as possible slip through the cracks?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their valuable contributions during today’s short debate. These regulations will reward low-paid live-in domestic workers right across the country so that they are paid fairly for the work they do. It will give more clarity on wage regulations for the families that employ these workers, making sure they are paid the national minimum wage. It will also ensure that HMRC enforces the national living wage and national minimum wage for live-in domestic workers, in line with other sectors. The legislation will ensure that all work is treated fairly, and it will end the misuse of the exemption to exploit workers, particularly migrant women.

I will now take the opportunity to answer some of the specific questions asked by noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, said that this is only one of the unfair anomalies in operation at the moment. The Government accept that and are working as hard as they can to ensure that this is dealt with. The question about different ages and rates is certainly something that I have always found quite difficult to come to terms with—I always paid everybody the same amount, regardless of their age. I can see the argument for bringing people up to a certain level as they leave education and start building up to a full-time job while living at home. Certainly, the Government have moved to narrow the gaps and, as I said, the full national living wage is a significant salary—that is good news. I will write to the noble Lord about the issue of less universal credit. I do not think that it is our policy to take away universal credit, but I will write to confirm that that is the case.

The noble Baroness asked about au pairs. I am advised that there are still 45,000 au pairs in this country, which is a surprisingly large figure. Although it is a small number in the total scheme of the 1.6 million workers, this is an important step to take—I suspect there are a lot of other people who are not covered by the au pair qualification. Clearly, it is the responsibility of HMRC to police this, and it has been given a substantial increase in the funds it can address towards this area. As I said, it follows up every single report it gets about this. Of course, there is a link to slavery and all sorts of things, which one worries about deeply. On the accommodation off-set, I rather like the idea of the monastery. That does reduce the national living wage but at a reasonable rate—I think it is about £1 per hour at the moment, or something like that.

The point of the noble Lord, Lord Leong, about the 1.6 million was well made. The Government have been absolutely committed to the national minimum wage and the national living wage, and they will continue to drive that through as far as possible. We will certainly encourage employers to ensure that this amendment is widely known; I will write with the detail on that. Equally, we will take seriously support for workers, particularly those who are homeless. I hope that covers the specific points raised.

I conclude by extending my thanks once again to the Low Pay Commission—it is wonderful to have an original member in our company. Thanks to its independent and expert advice on this national minimum wage exemption, we can ensure that the right balance is struck between the needs of workers, affordability for business and the wider impact on the economy and the families involved. Again, we look forward to receiving its recommendations for the 2024 rates, which will be published later this month. I commend these regulations to the Committee.

Small and Medium-sized Enterprises: Interest Rates

Debate between Lord Leong and Earl of Minto

Wednesday 13th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. CDFIs have been extremely successful and, if one looks at the plethora of lending opportunities right now, it continues to broaden because of the new entrants into the market. We will certainly take it up with the major banks and see where we get.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, SMEs are now looking to move from survival to growth as they recover from the impact of the pandemic. However, many SMEs that relied on government-back pandemic loans are finding the cost of borrowing far higher now. What can the Minister offer the millions of SME owners and employees whose prospects are hampered by the 15-year peak in interest rates?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The interest rate is a Bank of England matter. The reason why it has gone up, as we all know, is to battle inflation, which is incredibly important. Having said that, in business, financial rigour and accountability are paramount in managing a business, particularly through a growth phase. We saw insolvencies fall to quite a low level during the pandemic because of the Government’s support, and the noble Lord is right that we are starting to see the number creep up again. The Government will do all we can in providing both advice and teams to help businesses in trouble but, when it comes down to it, it depends very much on the financial viability of the business going forward.

Digital Economy Agreements

Debate between Lord Leong and Earl of Minto

Monday 24th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

No, my Lords, I am not sure that they are in conflict. Technological advances in free trade agreements will ensure that this country, among others, will be able to trade freely with a very wide range of companies and countries.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, digital transformation could grow the UK economy by more than £413 billion by 2030, equivalent to around 19% of the entire UK economy. That is more than twice the annual output of the UK’s manufacturing sector. Surely we should be turbocharging DEAs with as many countries as possible. Why are we so slow, and what assessment have the Government made of the size and experience of negotiating teams as part of the recent machinery of government changes?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point: anything that improves the speed of these free trade agreements can only be for the benefit of the country. The ones we are looking at at the moment are with India, Switzerland, Israel, Canada, Mexico and the GCC, and digital economy agreements will be in every one. There are digital trade provisions in a further 30 to 40 free trade agreements: I am very happy to give him a list but I do not think it is appropriate to read it out now. The very heart of this is making trade easier, faster, more secure and of course cheaper.

Baby-changing Facilities

Debate between Lord Leong and Earl of Minto

Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, I think we can all agree that the principle of free access to baby-changing facilities in as many different hospitality situations as we can reach is desirable. Under the existing building regulations there is already a requirement for new non- residential properties to consider this, as well as for buildings which are undergoing substantial reconstruction.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, as most mothers and fathers will tell you, taking an infant out, especially to eating places, is a real chore—you have to pack nappies, a changing mat and wipes, among other things. Having to find a place to change nappies is another chore. They should not be forced to do this in unsuitable places. Most child-friendly restaurants and cafés already have baby-changing facilities. This makes good business sense, contributing to a healthy “bottom” line, as parents will look at these eateries positively. There have been suggestions from many people that cafés, pubs and restaurants should be required to provide baby-changing facilities by law so that parents can have peace of mind. Will the Government look at this again?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments—in all respects. My noble friend made a very good point about how this needs to be practicable. There are a lot of existing hospitality venues where it is not practical to provide additional services, either from a financial point of view or, more importantly, from a space point of view. However, the principle holds good that, whenever the opportunity arises with anything new or anything that is being rebuilt, consideration should be, and indeed is, required under the building regulations improvements.

Post Office Executives: Bonuses

Debate between Lord Leong and Earl of Minto

Thursday 11th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his new role and look forward to working constructively in the months ahead. I thank him for coming to this House to address these concerns.

The Post Office Horizon IT scandal is the most widespread miscarriage of justice in UK history. For more than a decade, this Government have allowed the scandal to drag on. Thousands of lives have been ruined and, tragically, more than 30 families have lost loved ones. Despite all this, continued delays mean that thousands of victims have yet to receive financial compensation.

It is appalling that, instead of these victims seeing anyone held to account for their lives and livelihoods being ruined, they are instead suffering the indignity of watching those who contributed to their suffering rewarded. CEOs who allow such behaviour disgrace the business community. Does the Minister agree with me that this is pure corporate greed? Does he really believe that paying nearly half a million pounds in bonuses to those involved in the scandal is justifiable in this case? Does he agree that the payment of these bonuses undermines the fight for justice and insults the hundreds of victims for whom Members on both sides of this House have campaigned so hard and for so long?

[The Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade (The Earl of Minto) (Con)]

My Lords, no doubt this is a serious error in corporate judgment, coming on top of the Horizon scandal and the misery and false accusation that it caused. In this regrettable situation, the Post Office was right to apologise. This is an extremely serious issue, at a time when it is essential that the public have confidence that the culture and processes at the Post Office have been improved. Government has acted swiftly, calling for an immediate explanation from the Post Office of how this mistake occurred and what steps its board is taking in response.