House of Lords Reform

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, I am very much in a minority on these Benches, in that I very much oppose an elected House of Lords for a whole host of reasons. It would destroy the relationship between both Houses, where we acknowledge the primacy of the other House. It would inevitably cost more and become much more party-political, certainly around candidate selection.

I favour an appointed House, but with a major change. My change would satisfy the urging by the Leader of the House for us to be ambitious and would satisfy my leader, who in his excellent opening speech—although I did not agree with elements of it—suggested bringing in contemporary expertise. My approach would be to reduce substantially the number of political appointments and to look to our national institutions and professional bodies—perhaps the top 50 or 100, such as the Royal College of Surgeons, the Institute of Chartered Accountants, the National Farmers’ Union, the TUC, the Museums Association, the Howard League for Penal Reform, et cetera—to nominate one of their senior members to sit for a limited period in this House for, say, five years as an unaffiliated or Cross-Bench Peer. They not only would speak on their area of expertise but would agree to take part in the wider debates and activities of our House. At the end of five years, the respective bodies would then nominate someone to succeed that person.

This system would have two advantages. First, it would bring in, almost by definition, current expertise. Secondly, it would also bring in an element of democracy, as the individuals chosen by those institutions and professional bodies would by definition have been chosen by their peers. I believe that this major change would satisfy so many of the weaknesses that currently apply to your Lordships’ House.

Ukraine Update

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I have set out what we will be able to do in terms of a debate, and we are delighted to be able to give the House the opportunity to discuss such an important issue. Of course we are consistently meeting our European allies both at home and abroad. I mentioned all the travel, and I am sure noble Lords will have seen the Defence Secretary and Foreign Secretary travelling around talking to allies. I am sure they will be convening meetings across Europe, and indeed, more widely globally, in which these important issues can be discussed, and we can continue our co-ordinated approach.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, in the event of serious conflict, has consideration been given to offering medical treatment in this country to seriously wounded Ukrainians?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

We are working closely with partners to ensure that we can quickly provide emergency humanitarian assistance. We have also announced 1,000 more British troops will be put in readiness in the UK to support the humanitarian response in the region, should it be needed. I cannot go into huge specific details, but we are working with international partners because we recognise that there may be a need in the area.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, increasing anti-European sentiment was a prime reason for me to bid farewell to the Conservative Party in 1997, 20 years ago, after 13 years as a Member of Parliament, from 1979 to 1992. That sentiment continued unabated, and finally resulted in the 2015 Conservative manifesto commitment, and of course the 23 June referendum. At the referendum, a simple question was put: in or out? There were no sub-questions on hard or soft Brexit, the single market or the customs union. Of course, there were exaggerations and untruths, many voted for all sorts of reasons, and many did not realise all the implications. But all that, I am afraid, is true of all elections and referendums. As we now know, there was a clear, albeit small, majority to leave—a decision I bitterly regret in so many ways, and a tragedy both for our country and for Europe. Looking back, the referendum was fundamentally flawed. Clearly, we should have given young people a vote—after all, it is their future—and I suggest that a higher barrier to leave than just a simple majority would have made sense. However, all that is hindsight; we are where we are.

It is fair to say, as a remainer, that our economy and financial markets have held up rather better than expected in the short term, but we are just in the foothills of negotiations. Tortuous paths lie ahead. I fear that Europe will ensure that we pay a heavy price for leaving, not least to discourage other countries from following us. However, we are already experiencing some of the negatives: a fall in sterling, resulting in rising inflation, which increasingly pressurises family budgets; a vile rise in hate crimes; uncertainties over future investment plans of major international companies; and a question mark over London as the dominant financial centre. However, one plus is that cosmetic surgery, apparently, has fallen 40% since Brexit, although I know of no reason for that and will not go down the route of speculation.

So far, the Government have hardly covered themselves in glory. Parliamentary scrutiny had to be forced on them by the courts, and they would have gained considerable respect by coming out early to guarantee that EU nationals living and working here would have a permanent right of abode. To treat them like pawns in a negotiation is immoral and demeaning. In practice, many of our key sectors, such as hospitality, caring, food processing and agriculture, are dependent on them remaining here.

There are those—a majority on these Benches—who argue for a further popular vote at the end of negotiations: a destination vote, or similar. But however it is dressed up, it will be seen as a second referendum. I cannot support that. Our people have already spoken. A further vote will prolong the uncertainty and cause uproar in the country, or worse. Fanned by a hostile popular press, it would only widen the gulf between the establishment and the population—the very gap that many on these Benches have been striving so hard to bridge. Noble Lords will be able to see why I am sitting so far away from our Chief Whip.

We are a revising Chamber, acknowledging the primacy of the Commons. It voted overwhelmingly—that is, by 494 votes to 122—to trigger Article 50. I submit that calling for those already here to be allowed to stay falls within our scrutinising and revising jurisdiction; but a call for a further popular vote goes way beyond it.

Tourism

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd December 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they plan to give further recognition and support to the tourism sector, in the light of the number of jobs being created in that sector and the future growth potential.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as chairman of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.

[The Earl of Courtown (Con)]

My Lords, our five-point plan for tourism makes clear the Government’s support for our tourism industry. The spending review reiterated this by increasing GREAT funding and providing a £40 million Discover England fund to provide direct investment to support growth and tourism in England, specifically ensuring that overseas visitors explore beyond London. We have revamped the English Tourism Council, with a focus on jobs and skills, and have established a Business Visits and Events Board to support business tourism.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

Having pleased the tourist industry by leaving the core funding unchanged and lifting the GREAT moneys, as the Minister referred to, and by allocating £40 million to its Discover England Fund, the Government now have sadly shot themselves in the foot by merging VisitEngland, which markets England domestically, with VisitBritain, which markets all Britain overseas. Does the Minister realise that this subsuming, without any industry consultation, flies in the face of what the DCMS Select Committee, then chaired by the present Secretary of State, recommended, arguing for a clear delineation of separate roles? Does he realise that this has caused the 52 tourism trade bodies and key individuals in tourism to write to the Secretary of State strongly objecting, caused the chief executive of VisitEngland to resign in protest and severely compromised the relationship of VisitScotland and Visit Wales with VisitBritain? Now England joins an exclusive club of two—Chechnya and the Vatican—in not having a stand-alone tourist board.

[The Earl of Courtown]

I think that what the noble Lord is trying to say is how important it is that English tourism has a strong voice. However, this is not a merger. VisitEngland is already part of the British Tourist Authority, which trades as VisitBritain and VisitEngland. All we are doing is clarifying governance arrangements and lines of accountability with the BTA. This will ensure that there is clarity of direction, and will drive efficiency and effectiveness.

Syria: Foreign Affairs Committee Report

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

We are very clear that a stable Government in Syria is an essential part of the long-term eradication of ISIL. Ensuring that is at the heart of the talks in Vienna. The Statement says that there are some differences, which Prime Minister has acknowledged. We are working to achieve full and clear agreement on that—and that is what we will pursue, because we know it is essential to long-term success.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

Will the Leader of the House tell us whether the Government have made RAF Akrotiri available to the French air force? If we have, are we not to all intents and purposes already involved in the military campaign?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

We have certainly offered RAF Akrotiri to the French Government. I am afraid that I do not have any information beyond that, but I will see if I can provide anything further to the noble Lord in writing.

Rugby World Cup 2015

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 11th November 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the tourism benefits to the United Kingdom of hosting the Rugby World Cup.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and in doing so declare an interest as chairman of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, consultants Ernst & Young forecast that the event would attract more than 460,000 international visitors to England and Wales, the highest ever for a world cup, spending almost £1 billion and generating up to £2.2 billion output for the economy. Provisional figures on the economic benefits will be available in February with final data in May.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, while sporting events such as the Rugby World Cup, Wimbledon and the Tour de France are a welcoming tourism bonus, the cornucopia of our built heritage—our museums and galleries—generates core tourism. Last year, more people visited the V&A, the Natural History Museum and the Science Museum combined than visited Venice; more people visited the British Museum and the National Gallery combined than visited Barcelona; and more visited the Southbank Centre, Tate Modern and Tate Britain combined than visited Hong Kong. More people visit heritage properties every weekend than attend soccer matches. Do not these statistics and the renovation situation we now face here in Parliament emphasise how vital it is for the Treasury fully to maintain spending on our rich tapestry of national heritage?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I agree about the cornucopia that the noble Lord described. We actually have a very good system through a number of bodies, such as Historic England and English Heritage, and of course the private sector, including the National Trust and the Historic Houses Association, which do a superb job in repairing our buildings. Obviously we at DCMS will play our part in this challenging spending review, but the cornucopia remains.

House of Lords Reform

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 15th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as having had the privilege of serving in your Lordships’ House now for nine years and reached the age of 73. I am also a member of the Campaign for an Effective Second Chamber and of its working group, supporting the noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Norton, in looking at a range of options for improvement and change.

I strongly support an appointed House, which is not the position of my party. I believe in your Lordships’ House being a House of experience and expertise, but would like to see far less party political influence. All political parties have their stalwarts and zealots, but I suspect that others, carrying their party affiliations more lightly, would prefer the independence and freedom of the Cross Benches. Perhaps moving to the Cross Benches should become more than a relatively infrequent occurrence.

All of us are obviously very conscious of the rising criticism of this House following the unfortunate behaviour of some individuals, some of the more recent appointments and, of course, our overall numbers. Clearly, some changes are necessary, but I strongly believe that the silent, thinking majority of our nation want this great institution to survive and prosper.

On numbers, there is a near-universal view that 800-plus is too great. So a trimming of ermine is necessary to take the numbers down to, say, the size of the Commons after the likely boundary changes—around 600. However, I fear that the ideas put forward today by the noble Lords, Lord Armstrong and Lord Stone, are just too convoluted and complicated. So we have two clear, simple alternatives to bring down the numbers: a limit to the length of service or an age cut-off at, say, 80. On balance, I currently favour the latter, but am attracted to the idea in my noble friend Lord Steel’s Motion of a small number—perhaps up to 20—being allowed to remain past the age of 80 but being chosen by the whole House. Perhaps we could refer to this as the Tweedbank clause, from which it originated.

As for party balance in future appointments, the percentage of votes at the last general election is probably the most logical yardstick, as is the Prime Minister of the day ceasing to have near total patronage in favour of a rather broader consensus. I am attracted by some of the ideas expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Low. If one is at all fair, it is very difficult to justify UKIP not being awarded any new peerages following the last general election. I have some sympathy, therefore, with the noble Lords, Lord Pearson and Lord Stevens. Of course, some uncharitable souls have compared the 100-plus Lib Dem Peers here with the eight MPs in the other place. Our official line is that it is in the Commons that we are underrepresented.

Finally, I want to make two points on finance, which has not really been mentioned today. First, although it is fair to say that the majority of this House are probably financially comfortable or better, a definite minority have virtually no income other than their attendance allowance from here. They find life particularly difficult if they live outside London and have to pay for accommodation. Surely, some modest extra supplement is warranted for them. Secondly, retirement from this House could be encouraged by a limited financial package, which would certainly benefit the taxpayer overall. I know that this is not popular in many quarters, and probably will not come into force, but it would make financial sense.

Tourism

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the prospects for United Kingdom tourism in 2013.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in doing so, declare an interest as the chairman of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, tourism is the fifth biggest industry and worth £115 billion per year. In many parts of Britain, it is the leading economic sector. It has great potential to grow: VisitBritain reports that the volume of international tourism will grow by 3% this year, with a spend of £9 billion. Domestic tourism accounts for 80% of the market, and VisitEngland predicts a £500 million additional spend over four years. The Government are working with tourism organisations to secure these objectives.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

I know that my noble friend is very conscious of tourism’s importance, but are the Government? On 31 December, the Prime Minister sent a three-page letter to all parliamentarians on the Olympics legacy. Unbelievably, there was not one word on tourism. Is my noble friend aware that tourism created one-third of all new UK employment in the two years to the end of 2011 and now accounts for 9% of all employment? Two months ago, the Intercontinental London Westminster opened, just by St James’s Park tube station. Of its 170 permanent staff, only 68—or 40%—were from the United Kingdom. There were 13 each from Italy and Spain, 11 from Lithuania, 10 from France, eight from Poland and 47 who were from 30 other countries. It is a veritable United Nations. Just what are the Government doing to encourage our young people to embrace career opportunities in tourism and hospitality?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, first, I am very conscious that I am replying to a former Minister for Tourism. I assure your Lordships that the Government are taking tourism and its potential extremely seriously. The Prime Minister is leading from the front on this issue; indeed, the Secretary of State and the Minister for Sports and Tourism are fully engaged in promoting it. The Government are investing £137 million over four years via the GREAT campaign, which is delivered through VisitBritain and in partnership with the private sector. Through that investment, we hope that almost 60,000 new job opportunities will be created. Those will of course include job opportunities for the young, while the success story of apprenticeships is very strong.

House of Lords: Reform

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 21st June 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their latest estimate of the cost of their plans to reform the House of Lords.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, on behalf of the whole House, I wish my noble friend a very happy 70th birthday. As to his Question, cost estimates depend on the content of the Bill. Therefore, the Government will publish full cost estimates when we introduce a Bill.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for his good wishes. My finest birthday present would have been for him to announce that the Government’s proposals were to be withdrawn because they are nearly friendless and wholly unnecessary.

Is my noble friend aware that the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, a distinguished and recognised economist, has costed the Joint Committee proposals? The details have been sent to the Library and are freely available. He projects that the total cost of the recommendations will be nearly £500 million by 2020, broadly split between running costs of £300 million and election and referendum costs totalling £200 million—in other words, half a billion pounds in total. That is equivalent to the cost of 15,000 nurses’ salaries in one year. This £500 million compares with the total cost of running this House for the past five years of £91 million; it is five times as much. When the public wake up to this gross waste of money, will they not kick the proposed Bill firmly into touch?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, we will publish a Bill before the Summer Recess. When we do, we will have a full estimate of what a reformed House would cost. However, noble Lords would be wrong to assume that this will necessarily be an enormously expensive enterprise. After all, part of the purpose of reform is to reduce significantly the size of the House. However, we will make a full cost estimate when we publish the Bill.

NATO Summit

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, is right to refer to the Prime Minister’s impatience on the issue of EU-NATO talks. On how we will take those matters forward and whether we can expect some progress, the summit declaration calls on the NATO Secretary-General and the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, to present proposals for progress before the NATO Foreign Ministers meeting in April next year. Ultimate resolution of the EU-NATO impasse is likely to require a settlement in Cyprus, but we believe that practical co-operation can be improved in an incremental and sustainable way, led by Mr Rasmussen and the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton. We are working with NATO allies, EU partners, Mr Rasmussen and the noble Baroness to ensure that this happens. The point about this is that there is a fundamental change of view, or focus, on this issue, which I very much hope will bear fruit.

I have nothing more to add in response to the noble Lord’s extra question about tactical nuclear weapons. Perhaps it is something that I could follow up in a letter.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, there is clearly much to welcome in this Statement, particularly the greater co-operation with Russia. I have two questions of detail. First, on the drive for greater efficiency within NATO, the cutting of a number of command posts and the reduction of a number of agencies, is there any agreed timescale for those reductions? Secondly, on the question of the additional routes through Russia to support our forces on the ground in Afghanistan, particularly given the attacks on convoys through the Khyber Pass, is the increase in the number of routes significant? Is less fuel and equipment going to come in through Pakistan? Could my noble friend elaborate a little on this whole question?

[Lord Strathclyde]

First, on the question of reducing the number of command posts, the announcement was this weekend, and the intention is that the drive for efficiency should start at once. I believe that we will see progress within a few months. It is important that we should keep the pressure on and that progress should be made. Secondly, the important agreement with Russia that we should have a new overland route for convoys and other aspects of military support is extremely welcome. I cannot add any more to what I have already said on that, and it may not be possible to do so at this stage.