Queen’s Speech

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, in a world of nuclear stockpiles and proliferation risks, our generation has been extraordinarily fortunate—but I worry for our children and grandchildren. Any regime which is prepared to see upwards of 20,000 of its troops killed and thousands injured, create 5 million-plus refugees and brutally devastate a country is quite capable of pressing the nuclear button, be it on the battlefield or strategic. Morality has long gone. Thus, it is only the threat of massive retaliation which holds it back—hence I welcome the very recent decision to press ahead with the £2 billion Dreadnought submarine programme, with four new submarines built in Barrow expected to go into service from the 2030s with a likely 30-year lifespan. We have no alternative. Let us hope that the programme is not beset by historic delays and cost overruns. Last week’s PAC report is hardly encouraging, saying that the MoD’s

“corporate culture is still too traditional and resistant to change or criticism, and it still does not have nearly enough people with the financial skills to effectively manage one of the government’s most challenging portfolios.”

We can but hope.

In last week’s New Statesman, Andrew Marr drew our attention to the first words on defence on the SNP website:

“The SNP has never and will never support the retention or renewal of Trident. We believe that nuclear weapons are immoral, ineffective and expensive.”


I cannot believe that the brave Scottish people will go along with this selfish position, relying on others to shoulder the nuclear risk, given current circumstances.

The coming together of NATO in common cause over Ukraine is obviously welcome—as is the intention of Finland and Sweden to apply to join, given their significant military capabilities. However, I do question the grandstanding of our Prime Minister in signing defence pacts seemingly without parliamentary debate or approval, particularly given our overstretched and underresourced Armed Forces.

We must recognise the risk that a wounded, somewhat humiliated and increasingly beleaguered Russia might lash out in an unpredictable and very dangerous way. We must remain on maximum guard. Yes, post Ukraine we will rightly have to try to reach some accommodation with Russia, however difficult this may be. But we have to face the possibility—perhaps the unthinkable possibility —of nuclear conflict, by design, by accident or by miscalculation, however horrific this would be. Nuclear terrorism, of course, is also always possible. Casualties in our crowded island would be appalling, but there would be millions of survivors, so I have four questions for the Minister who is replying, and perhaps he could get the appropriate department to write back to me.

First, are there any booklets or information on the Government’s website advising the public in the event of a nuclear threat or attack? Secondly, the noble Lord, Lord True, said in this House in March that a mobile phone-based emergency alerting system would be launched in the summer. What is the latest update on this? Thirdly, do the Government have any policy at all, or give any advice, on the construction of underground bunkers or protective shelters? Fourthly, the 2020 national risk register says:

“The government maintains national stocks of medical treatments with arrangements in place for how these would be distributed in an emergency.”


Could the Minister elaborate further on these stocks? I have to say that our early experience with Covid is hardly reassuring in this regard.

Finally, given a likely enlarged NATO, which has been referred to on many occasions during this debate, and certainly a more united one, will Her Majesty’s Government take a lead in endeavouring to rationalise current wasteful allied duplicated defence procurement spend with greater interoperabilities? This would be a huge step forward.

Venezuela: Russian Troops

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd April 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the deployment of Russian troops in Venezuela.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, given the deteriorating political situation in Venezuela, we believe that the arrival of Russian military aircraft, military personnel and equipment at Caracas airport on 23 March is provocative and ill-conceived. The United Kingdom supports a resolution to the current crisis in Venezuela through a peaceful, democratic transition following free and fair presidential elections in accordance with international democratic standards, as demanded by the interim President, Juan Guaidó, and the national assembly, in line with the Venezuelan constitution.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

I thank the Minister. As in Syria, an opportunist Russia comes in to prop up a hugely unpopular President, seemingly impervious to the appalling suffering of the people—only this time it is in America’s back yard. President Trump has called on Russia to “get out”, and Secretary of State Pompeo has said that America,

“will not stand idly by”,


so clearly this is potentially a very serious situation. Can the Minister give the House any update on the scale of Russian deployment or its mission?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. Russia is sending military aid to Venezuela. Troops arriving in public view do not help to resolve the crisis in Venezuela, and the US—as he rightly acknowledges—has been strongly critical. While Foreign Minister Lavrov’s defence remains that this is part of a regular military deployment, bearing in mind the situation prevailing in Venezuela it is far from that. This is why we believe it is time to ratchet up the diplomatic efforts, as the United Kingdom has been doing in working hand in glove with the Lima Group.

NATO and the European Union

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, there were two crucial votes last week. There was the vote in the House of Commons to support air strikes against Daesh and there was the vote in the Bundestag to commit German forces in support. I was particularly pleased with the decision and position taken by my party, the Liberal Democrats, in the Commons. Had my party gone the other way, I would have had to very seriously consider my position.

I speak in this debate as a very committed European. Indeed, one of the prime reasons I left the Conservative Party was that in the 1990s that party became, very sadly, increasingly Eurosceptic. I think that going as far as having a European army is probably going too far, but I believe that we need much more multilateral integration of army units across Europe, as was referred to a little earlier. Similarly, there has to be a much greater rationalisation of procurement. We have far too many production facilities in Europe. Obviously, one is conscious of the sovereignty arguments. Until we have greater integration in military units and consolidation and rationalisation of defence companies, the problem of procurement excess will remain. It was very disappointing to me and to others when there was an immediate outcry when it was suggested, some years ago, that there might be a merger between EADS and BAE.

In my short time allocation this evening, I should like to focus on the UK-French relationship. I have to say that a failure to support France in Syria would have been a near disaster in relationship terms; indeed, in my view it would have been a national humiliation, so I repeat how pleased I was at the decision that was taken in the other House. The truth, of course—it was referred to by my noble friend a little earlier in his excellent opening contribution—is that co-operation between ourselves and France is far greater than is acknowledged and the public is aware of. We are conscious of what we did to help the French in Mali, in terms of heavy lift, and, more recently, the reciprocal help by France in maritime patrols, where we are currently sadly deficient.

I remember a very early briefing that the current Secretary of State gave to a number of us when he told us that the one thing that had really surprised him was the degree of co-operation that he found existed between our military and the French. He almost implied that he was speaking daily to his French opposite number, but there is a great reluctance by the Government to acknowledge just how much and how deep co-operation there really is, as my noble friend said.

I have a number of questions to put briefly to the noble Baroness arising from the SDSR. If she cannot answer the points tonight, perhaps she could write to me. Paragraph 450 says of the SDSR:

“We will … collaborate on complex weapons”.

Can she indicate what these complex weapons are?

Paragraphs 512 and 535 refer to the UK-France Combined Joint Expeditionary Force. Paragraph 535 says:

“Our Combined Joint Expeditionary Force, which will be operational in 2016, will provide a potent combined reaction force of up to 10,000 personnel”—

a crisis-responding force. We are nearly in 2016 now, so what is the latest situation with this force?

Finally, reference is made in paragraph 535 to “shared opportunities” when our new carriers enter service. In a number of briefings that I have been at over the years there have been very strong hints from the Navy that we will be looking to our allies—and, I suspect, particularly France—to provide escort support for our carriers, given the sadly inadequate number of escorts that we have. Can the noble Baroness give some indication of current thinking in this area?

NATO

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the recent speech by the United States Secretary of Defence Robert Gates on the future of NATO.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

Defence Secretary Gates’ speech was a warning that Europe cannot take for granted the security blanket provided by NATO and historically resourced primarily by the United States. It also says something about the changing position of the United States itself. To deliver the capabilities that ensure our security, many European countries, especially NATO allies that fail to meet the 2 per cent of the GDP target, which was reconfirmed as recently as March 2011, need to increase levels of defence spending and work together more efficiently and effectively, as demonstrated by the UK-France defence treaty. We also need to remember that effective security involves hard and soft power elements—in fact, smart power.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for that very comprehensive reply. Perhaps I may remind the House precisely what Secretary Gates said. He said:

“The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the US Congress—and in the American body politic writ large—to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defence”.

While we are very grateful for all that the United States does, does not its lack of complete commitment on the Libyan operation send a clear message to us? Is not American increasingly looking to the East?

EU and NATO: Peace in Europe

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 28th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As I said, I think the two things are complementary. I know that the noble Lord, who is a considerable expert on these issues, would not forget the role of the Council of Europe, originally set up at the instigation of this nation which took a lead, which has helped to bring values to the whole European continent. All three institutions have made their mark.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, Senator John McCain, after recently visiting Libya, said that,

“the US has got to play a greater role on the air power side. Our NATO allies neither have the assets, nor frankly the will—there's only six countries of the 28 in NATO that are actively engaged in this situation”.

Does my noble friend agree with Senator McCain and what pressure is the UK putting on the non-participants to pull their weight? Is this not the real test of NATO’s credibility?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The Libya issue is going a bit further than this Question, but the Americans are playing an active part, as we know, in a whole range of areas in trying to bring some stability to a divided Libya. Other members of NATO are in constant dialogue and have been asked whether they will contribute. It is true that not every member of NATO is involved. There is the particular question of Turkey, which has not so far played a hard-power part in the NATO operation. At least this is a core of members in NATO and it is under NATO organisation as a whole, so it is working.

France: Bilateral Defence Co-operation

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s line of thinking is extremely positive and constructive. Although the francophonie and France’s interest in its former colonies in Africa are rather different in character from those of the Commonwealth —its origins are quite different—there are clearly some areas of common interest. In fact, I am told that the two secretary-generals of the organisations meet quite regularly and the noble Lord will remember that President Sarkozy addressed the previous Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Trinidad and Tobago last year. I hope that that kind of liaison will develop. It will indeed be on agendas for the next UK-France summit. The sharing of embassies in some convenient areas comes up from time to time, both in an EU and a national context, as does sharing embassies with other Commonwealth countries. As was mentioned, Australia wishes to share some embassies with the UK. Common sense and common organisation, particularly in more remote and difficult posts, point to some sharing of facilities and that makes perfectly good common sense.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

What mechanisms would be used to monitor the progress of the constituent parts of the recent defence treaties? Will there be an annual report to Parliament on this area?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would have to check with my noble friend on the precise nature of the monitoring but this is a very elaborate set of two defence and security treaties which carry affairs a long way forward in a number of areas, not just defence but also in civil nuclear development and in other crucial security areas. I shall check precisely the arrangements and come back to my noble friend.

Queen's Speech

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 26th May 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, we live today in a dangerous and unpredictable world: a possible nuclear Iran; an ever widening terrorist threat; a tinder-box Korean peninsula; an unstable and unsettled Middle East; a fragile Pakistan with nuclear weapons; serious piracy; a growing cyber warfare threat; and significantly increasing military expenditure by China and Russia.

Our country faces the twin pressures of overstretched Armed Forces bravely fighting the incredibly complex and bloody war in Afghanistan, following on immediately from Iraq, and a massively overcommitted defence budget with up to a £30 billion shortfall.

We welcome the reference in the gracious Speech to,

“fully support our courageous Armed Forces and undertake a full Strategic Defence and Security Review”,

and to,

“work to reduce the threat from nuclear weapons and nuclear proliferation”.

Obviously, we welcome the openness on our nuclear stockpile, referred to in the opening remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Howell. I personally am delighted that the coalition agreement between our two parties commits to a number of measures to improve life for our Armed Forces from doubling the operational allowance for personnel serving in Afghanistan to providing extra support for veterans’ mental health needs and the laudable aim to reduce MoD running costs by at least 25 per cent. However, no time indication is given in relation to that 25 per cent. I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Astor, to his new post and hope that when he replies to the debate he will refer to the 25 per cent time aspect.

However, the Strategic Defence Review will be no panacea. The current problems of overstretch and overcommitment will still haunt us. Frankly, our new Government face a nightmare task in trying to balance the books. At least it is reassuring that defence spend this year will not be cut. Whatever the merits of our two new carriers under construction, surely it was irresponsible of the previous Government to order them knowing that the MoD was effectively “bust”. Any cancellation of procurement orders across the range of MoD capital spend will be very expensive, given the near certainty of heavy penalty clauses in contracts.

We had been hoping for an SDR setting out a full and frank assessment of the United Kingdom’s defence and diplomatic role in the years ahead—free of Treasury influence. However, a recent headline in the Financial Times was not encouraging. It stated:

“Treasury to have say in defence review”.

A defence figure was quoted as saying:

“What I would hope for is that we end up with a defence settlement that sees ambition deferred—not ambition deleted. We accept that we will muddle on for a bit, but hope we can raise our game when times get better”.

I fear that the Strategic Defence Review could end up as a range of options with a range of fudges.

As is known, our wing of the coalition is somewhat Trident-sceptic. I ask the noble Lord, Lord Astor, whether the “full Strategic Defence and Security Review”, mentioned in the gracious Speech, will actually include Trident.

While the United States will probably always be our major ally and our ultimate military protector, the time is right to build a major military partnership, or similar, with France—indeed, I believe that this would be welcomed by the United States. Both our countries have similar defence budgets—in total, 40 per cent of European defence spend, almost 50 per cent of the equipment budget and two-thirds of research and technology spend. We have comparable ballistic submarine capability, a comparable number of escort vessels, and much duplication in our Armed Forces and in transport and supply aircraft.

Over the years, there has been much talk but little progress. The St Malo agreement failed to deliver, the high-level working group made some progress, we have had some success in missile co-operation, the A400M transport aircraft struggles on, but we have hardly scratched the surface. The stark truth is that both our nations cannot afford to maintain a complete range of independent military capability. President Sarkozy has courageously brought France back into NATO’s military structure and has made a number of overtures to the United Kingdom for greater military co-operation. At a recent Franco-British-RUSI seminar in London, Michel Miraillet, the French defence policy director, said:

“More than ever we are ready to co-operate with the United Kingdom”,

but,

“is the UK ready to cross the Rubicon? That is the question”.

It is a question of leadership and political will. By way of example, let us take our new carriers. There will be a number of constituent parts—rotary and fixed-wing aircraft, the crew, escort vessels and submarine protection. Surely there could be a role for the French here. Is it not time to begin to think outside the box? We cannot go on as we are.

I understand that on 18 June President Sarkozy will come to London to commemorate General de Gaulle’s 1940 appeal to the French people via the BBC. It will be the 70th anniversary of that event. Does this not present a great opportunity for our Prime Minister to hold out the hand of serious military co-operation and drive it forward, as only a Prime Minister can? Without prime-ministerial involvement, little progress is likely to be made.