Companies: Executive Remuneration
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox(12 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Lea of Crondall
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will ensure that company boards take full account of the interests and views of employees and the wider public in the determination of executive board pay.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, it is not for Government to micromanage how companies set board pay. Indeed, it is for shareholders to challenge where they believe pay is inappropriate. Last week, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills announced proposals to improve the information that shareholders have at their disposal, and this includes requiring companies to report on how they have taken account of the views and pay levels of employees, and company performance, when setting executive pay.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the Minister for that reply. Mr Cable’s statement undoubtedly contained some excellent analysis, but two questions arise. First, without implementing Ed Miliband’s proposal for worker representatives to be on remuneration committees but simply relying on corporate shareholders to stop the insane leapfrogging that goes on at present, what is there—except in the special case of RBS—that will bring about these overdue changes? Secondly, on information and consultation bodies in industry, Mr Cable’s wish for things to move faster than the present snail’s pace is welcome, but again it is not clear what the driver of faster change will be. Will the Secretary of State take an early opportunity to discuss his ideas on this with the TUC?
Baroness Wilcox
Actually, shareholders are getting more engaged on the issue of pay. They have publicly stated their intention to get tougher, particularly with the large public companies, and we are giving them the tools to do this, which is what the Secretary of State, Vince Cable, said last week. As to the second half of the question—which the noble Lord is perfectly entitled to ask, as he reminded me before we came in here today—my ministerial colleagues Vince Cable and Ed Davey meet regularly with representatives of the TUC and will look to discuss this with them the next time they meet.
Corporate Governance
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox
Lord Lea of Crondall
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will initiate a review of the structure of corporate governance in large United Kingdom companies, in the light of wider public and social interests in boardroom decisions.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, the Government are examining the responses to a recent discussion paper on corporate reporting, which includes proposals for clearer reporting of corporate social responsibility issues and on executive remuneration. Professor John Kay is due to publish his recommendations for encouraging more long-term behaviour in equity markets in the summer of 2012. In February this year, the Government welcomed the publication of proposals by the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Abersoch, for increasing the number of women on boards, and that work continues.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the Minister for that reply, and I apologise for sounding like a frog—I do not mean one of those Frogs, or a Kraut. Do I get more time for all these interruptions?
I welcome the commitment by the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend to curb the excesses of top boards of directors, whose pay is spiralling up as everyone else's spirals down. Will the Minister accept that the key option to restore confidence in the workforce and the wider society is—in Mr Clegg's words—to break open the closed shop of board remuneration by adding an employee representative? Secondly, does she agree that this test will be missed not by appointing a hand-picked favourite, which would make the whole exercise cosmetic, but by some mechanism whereby the person—he or she—self-evidently has the confidence of the whole workforce?
Baroness Wilcox
Some have said that remuneration committee membership as a whole does not come from a wide enough talent pool, that it stifles innovation and that the closed shop of boards and board committees needs to change. We know that diverse boards that bring a range of experience are more effective. The idea of introducing employee representatives may be one way of encouraging more challenge on pay. As I said, we have three consultations out at the moment, all of which report at various times leading up to the spring, so I hope that we will be able to give the noble Lord answers that he will find favourable at that time.
Jobseeker’s Allowance: Interns
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox
Baroness Wilcox
In answering this Question, I find it interesting to discover that there is no such thing as an intern; there is no legal definition of an intern at all. One is either a worker or a volunteer. Therefore, I can agree with pretty well everything my noble friend has said, because some people will be paid and some will not be paid. In the Chancellor’s Autumn Statement yesterday, my right honourable friend said:
“In order to make the education and skills system more responsive to employer needs”,
the Government would, among other things,
“increase young people’s access to high quality work experience”.
I hope he finds that answer helpful.
Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on her high-class piece of sophistry a moment ago about there being no such thing as an intern, when we have been debating it off and on in this House for many months. The issue must be that, if people are doing what anyone else would call work, it is biased in favour of the people who can afford to have mummy and daddy give them enough to live on, as opposed to those people who are not in that position. Therefore, there should be a minimum that people get paid.
Baroness Wilcox
Internships can be paid or they can be worked on as volunteers, where we would encourage travel expenses to be paid. We are committed to improving social mobility; we are clear that job opportunities should be based on what you know and not just who you know. We are encouraging businesses to provide internships with financial support to ensure fair access. I am sure that is what the noble Lord wanted me to say.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Young of Norwood Green
My Lords, I shall be brief because my noble friend Lord Lea has covered the waterfront, as they say. He raises a key point, which I referred to in my previous contribution. There are some concerns about the quality of the service offered by locals, but we have had some useful assurances from the managing director, Paula Vennells, about the nature of pilots that will genuinely seek to improve the level of service. The concerns about the quality and range of services have been adequately described by my noble friend Lord Lea.
On the transition arrangements in converting those sub-offices to the local model and what the payments are likely to be, I do not know whether the Minister is in a position to reiterate the statement made by Paula Vennells, who said that broadly speaking the fixed and variable income ought to be more or less on a par with the income at the moment.
I wish to pick up on what my noble friend Lord Lea said when he talked about the importance of government business and it being a key part of the future of these offices; and my final point is that it would be useful if the Minister could confirm that remote rural offices that need a fixed income to survive will not be moved to the local model on a compulsory basis.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, Amendments 46 and 49, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lea, require the Post Office to provide details in its annual reports of major changes in its sub-postmaster contracts from the introduction of the Post Office Local model. In Committee, I spoke at length about the Post Office Local model, but I would like briefly to reiterate some of the key points. The Post Office Local model was introduced under the name Post Office Essentials in September 2008, and I know that the noble Lord, Lord Young, is therefore familiar with the format. The Post Office Local does away with the impersonal, screened-off, fortress post office counter that requires separate staff. Instead, it provides open-plan access to post office services alongside the retail till for the hours the shop is open. This will involve a significant increase in opening hours for the customer while also providing a much more flexible and lower cost operating model for the retailer. The Post Office Local model currently provides 97 per cent of post office transactions by volume and there are over 50 Post Office Local pilots operating across the country right now. Customer satisfaction with these pilots has been excellent with 94 per cent of customers being very or extremely satisfied with the local model. Some noble Lords will have been unable to hear Paula Vennells, the managing director of the Post Office, speak last week, although I know that the noble Lord, Lord Lea, was there when she spoke. Paula explained very eloquently that it is plainly not in the Post Office’s interest to introduce a model of contract that is not viable for sub-postmasters.
The model will involve pay being rebalanced from fixed to variable pay in those outlets affected. But this cannot be accomplished simply by eliminating fixed pay without evaluating rates of variable pay to ensure the model works for sub-postmasters and Post Office Ltd alike. Over the next two years, there will be continued and widespread piloting to develop understanding of the locations in which a Post Office Local may be viable and the services that may be offered from one.
In 2014, we expect a larger scale rollout so that by 2015 around 2,000 of the network of at least 11,500 will have converted to the local model. To give some perspective over the same period, the Government’s £1.34 billion funding package will enable the Post Office to invest in around 4,000 main post offices in towns and city centres across the country. These will more closely follow the traditional post office model. Of course, that will leave almost 6,000 post offices whose operating model will remain unchanged. I understand that any change in sub-postmaster contracts is of great significance for the many independent businessmen and women who operate post offices up and down the country. But I do not think that a public annual report is the appropriate place for a business to detail its contractual terms with its agents. That is certainly not something that one would see any competitors of the Post Office doing.
I hope that I have provided sufficient explanation and reassurance to the noble Lord to encourage him to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the Minister. However, the competitors of the Post Office may not do this, but they are not the Post Office. They are not what the British people understand to be the service of post offices right across the country. They do not cherry-pick like their competitors, which is why they are part of the fabric of the community. Perhaps one could agree the terms of reference of a public opinion poll whereby all the facts are on the table, as spelt out by the managing director of the Post Office, the noble Baroness and the unions. I include the national federation and George Thompson who, according to the Independent yesterday, said:
“The NFSP has made clear that a minimum 10-year inter-business agreement … between the Post Office and Royal Mail is required if the companies are separated, both to allow the public and business to continue to access Royal Mail services at their local post office and to secure the large proportion of subpostmasters’ income which comes from carrying out work on behalf of Royal Mail”.
Parliament is the backstop if something goes wrong with these negotiations. I am not saying that it is a negotiation between an elephant and a mouse. But the idea that the negotiations have as much leverage on the part of the sub-postmasters as on the part of the Post Office under the plans in this Bill is rather fanciful. We will just have to consider where we are. I asked the noble Baroness whether she would comment on the interesting study which says that sub-postmasters believe that 9,000 post offices could close under the Government’s plans. I should like to know what was wrong with the methodology of this study. The Government have had 48 hours to look at it. I do not know whether the noble Baroness would like to take this opportunity to say more about that.
Baroness Wilcox
Is the noble Lord, Lord Lea, speaking about the CWU’s recent survey on the future of the Post Office?
Lord Lea of Crondall
I am referring to the survey conducted by an opinion research company, which was commissioned by the union.
Baroness Wilcox
I understand that the National Federation of SubPostmasters said in response to recent claims by the CWU:
“We (the NFSP) have played a pivotal role in ensuring that both companies are working well together towards securing a mutually beneficial arrangement and we are confident that a 10-year commercial deal will be achieved”.
It continues:
“Scaremongering about the future without an IBA and the forced introduction of the Post Office Local model does nothing but harm to the post office network and to subpostmasters”.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the noble Baroness for reading out what I have in front of me as well. I was asking whether she thinks this so-called scaremongering is actually the survey of the membership of the national federation. It is all very confusing and I do not know any more than the noble Baroness does how one reconciles these two things. But before we get to Third Reading, it is incumbent on BIS to make a more considered evaluation of this remarkable survey.
Lord Lea of Crondall
That is all that can usefully be said at this stage, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox
Baroness Wilcox
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for tabling this amendment. The Government are clear that the wide range of financial services that the Post Office offers—personal loans, credit cards and savings products, for example—are an important part of its total product suite. The Government made clear in the coalition agreement that we would look at the case for developing new sources of revenue for the Post Office, including the creation of a post office bank. We have looked at the different options and arguments for such a bank very carefully and have come to the conclusion that, particularly in the financial climate that we are experiencing, it is just not a viable option. My noble friend Lady Kramer spoke further on this and gave us her views, and I think that she felt the same.
Setting up and capitalising a new bank would be very expensive as well as creating a much more volatile and risky balance sheet for the company. Instead, we are committed to ensuring that the Post Office continues to offer wide access to existing banking facilities. For that reason, we were extremely pleased that in November last year the Royal Bank of Scotland reached agreement with the Post Office to allow RBS customers, including NatWest customers, access to their current and business accounts at the post office. That will mean that almost 80 per cent of all current account holders will be able to withdraw money free of charge at the post office, while many can also pay money in and check their balances.
In response to points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, on financial inclusion, supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, the Post Office already offers a range of services to help people on lower incomes, including the Post Office card account and the ability to access all basic bank accounts.
The noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead, will be heartened to know that we are extremely supportive of a stronger link-up between the Post Office and credit unions. Recent announcements by the Department of Work and Pensions on credit union funding open up excellent opportunities for the Post Office to provide access to credit union services to many more people. This builds on existing co-operation between the two sectors, which is already strong. Maintaining the large branch network and increasing access to bank accounts at the post office, as I have said, is an important step towards financial inclusion.
Financial services are clearly an area with significant potential for growth. As I have said, though, the creation of a post bank would not be in the best interests of the post office network. Instead, we strongly believe that funding for the Post Office will be best spent modernising and maintaining the network. The funding that we have provided to the network will mean that the Post Office is better placed to compete for new business.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I may have misheard the Minister, but did I hear her say that all these desirable things are dependent on the maintenance of a wide network? Is it part of the Government’s guarantee that that wide network will be there?
Baroness Wilcox
Yes, that wide network will be there.
We strongly believe that funding for the Post Office will be best spent modernising and maintaining the network. The funding that we have provided to the network will mean that the Post Office is better placed to compete for new business and to further develop its offer to both local and national government, in its ambition to become a front office for the Government. As part of this strategy, we will of course also support the Post Office in expanding its financial services offering, but at this time we believe that that is best done by offering access to the existing high street banks through the post office network.
The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, asked a number of further questions on credit unions. It would be best for me to deal with those concerns when we discuss credit unions specifically in the later amendment under Clause 11. I hope that it is possible at the moment for the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox(13 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, I am afraid that we now see week after week in some newspapers—I would include under that heading a magazine such as the Economist—thinly disguised attacks on collective bargaining. We cannot debate that topic in its totality this evening, but I refer the Committee to the central point. Across the OECD countries, there is a close statistical fit between the amount of collective bargaining in a society and its equality. It is therefore the grossest hypocrisy—it is not conscious, but perhaps subliminal—for people to say that they do not like the gap between rich and poor when they are attacking collective bargaining. Both at a point in time and over the decades, the weakening of collective bargaining means that the forces in society are no longer balanced. We now have a gross imbalance between the oligopoly of power in the City of London and the attempt to weaken the workforce.
I think that we will see in the demonstration to be organised by the TUC in London on 26 March that the workforce has woken up. It will demand that its rights be respected, which will have great resonance with the people of this country. I therefore fire a warning shot across the bows of people who think that they are now able to administer the coup de grace to people who have collective bargaining. When the postal services are in the private sector, they may be expected to fit the private sector model whereby workers are not covered by collective bargaining and it is much more difficult for them to be so. Therefore, it is fair to take the opportunity to point out, in the spirit of this amendment, that it would be very unwise for people to think, “The public sector has collective bargaining. In the private sector, we don’t have collective bargaining and we can just say goodbye to it”. Anybody who thinks that is deluding themselves.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, Amendment 13 seeks to place a duty on the Secretary of State to ensure that employees’ existing rights of recognition are maintained. I am not sure whether the amendment fits neatly into Clause 2, which is intended to place a duty on the Secretary of State to report to Parliament when a decision has been made to undertake a disposal of shares in the Royal Mail company. However, I am happy to debate the specific issue raised by the noble Lords.
Before I do that, I reiterate that the Government welcome the positive changes in the relationship between Royal Mail’s management and the CWU over the past 12 months. I say this because, notwithstanding the historic references made by the noble Lord, Lord Young, industrial relationships at Royal Mail have undoubtedly been poor in recent times. The national strikes in 2007 and 2009 were damaging for the company and for the postal market but the business transformation agreement, reached in March last year, has seen the implementation of a new approach to union-management relationships. It has enabled progress on the much needed modernisation of the company and I urge both sides to continue to work together in that improved way.
The noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, was concerned about uncertainty for employees. Let me be clear that the worst thing for employees would be for us to do nothing and to let the Royal Mail decline through inaction and a lack of investment. People want to work for a stable company and to have a secure pension, and I believe that our proposals will help us on both those fronts.
On employee representation, employees at Royal Mail are mainly represented by the Communication Workers Union and by the Communication and Managers’ Association, which is a section of UNITE. This representation is recognised in voluntary agreements between these unions and the management. The Government do not play a role in these agreements. Such voluntary agreements occur across industries where there is a union presence and it is good practice for the employer to take full account of the views of employees when deciding whether a union should be recognised or continue to be recognised. Union membership remains relatively high within most grades at Royal Mail. That fact suggests that most staff support union recognition.
I have no reason to believe that any new owners would seek to change such agreements, provided, of course, that the employees wish to continue to be represented by those unions. Any new owner will fully appreciate the need to work with employees’ representatives to secure the future of the company in the changing postal market. Management most certainly cannot do this alone. However, as I have said, union recognition within Royal Mail—or any other business—is primarily a matter for the employer and the trade unions concerned. I do not therefore believe that it would be appropriate for there to be a specific duty on the Secretary of State to guarantee these arrangements in Royal Mail. I therefore hope that the noble Lords, Lord Young and Lord Lea, will take time to consider my response and that they will withdraw their amendment at this time.
Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, this has been a stimulating evening all round. Amendment 14 is a sister amendment to Amendment 2 which we debated last week. Amendment 13A provides a new twist on the disposal of shares in Royal Mail and seeks to place time constraints on the disposal of shares specifically in the case of an initial public offering—an IPO.
I will first respond to Amendment 14 which seeks to keep Royal Mail in public ownership and reflects the position set out in the previous Government’s Postal Services Bill which was considered by this House in 2009 but never found its way on to the statute book. As I said when we debated Amendment 2, the Government believe that limiting a sale to only a minority of Royal Mail’s shares will reduce our ability to attract the best future owners for the company and secure the best value for the taxpayer. Amendment 14 proposes a staggered approach to a sale of shares but with a limit on the disposal of 49 per cent of the value of the shares in Royal Mail. Given that the Government are also committed to establishing an employee share scheme—we will come later to amendments from noble Lords opposite to increase the size of the scheme—these amendments would in fact limit even further the amount that could go to private investors. However, the difference between this Government’s position and the previous Government’s position is that we do not believe that it is necessary for the Government to retain overall ownership of the Royal Mail.
The noble Lord, Lord Young, was concerned about maximising the value of Royal Mail. That concern is welcome although somewhat surprising given his earlier amendments which sought to limit how much could be sold, which would undoubtedly impact on the value. The Bill as drafted allows for the sale of shares in tranches, as set out in Amendment 14. However, we do not believe that there should be a rigid structure for how shares can be sold. There is nothing to stop the Government, in the first instance, selling a minority stake in Royal Mail or for Government to retain a stake in the company in future. However, we do not believe that there should be any barriers in legislation to prevent a disposal of a majority of the shares. As I have said before, our focus is simply on what is best for the Royal Mail and the taxpayer.
The noble Lord, Lord Lea, was concerned that Richard Hooper had steered the Government towards an IPO and that the Government would undervalue Royal Mail in such a flotation. I wish to make it clear that Richard Hooper did not express a preference for any form of sale. In his 2010 report he said that an IPO had become an option as Royal Mail now had less need for corporate experience from a partner thanks to its strengthened board. The Government are focusing on securing the best outcome for Royal Mail and the taxpayer. I hope I have already assured the noble Lord that we can sell in tranches, as he suggests, if that best meets our twin objectives.
As I said in my remarks on Amendment 14, and earlier amendments, the Government want to maintain maximum flexibility in the method and timing of any disposal of shares. This will give the Government the opportunity to make the right decision at the right time and to ensure that we can get the best result for Royal Mail and the taxpayer. Placing statutory arbitrary deadlines in legislation will not help to achieve the Government’s objectives. If we choose to dispose of shares through an IPO, I believe that it would be impractical to be faced with a deadline of 31 July 2012 and to have to rush the process through by then. We heard last week from the noble Lord, Lord Jones, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, about the damage caused by imposing statutory deadlines on commercial transactions. What if we were not ready to launch a flotation until August 2012? We would then have to wait until July the following year to make the disposal and give Royal Mail the access to the capital that it so badly needs. That would be in the interests of neither the company nor the taxpayer.
As I said on Amendment 14, nothing in the Bill would prevent the Government staging a disposal in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Lea, suggests, but Amendment 13A would reduce the flexibility to make the right decision and I do not believe that that would be in the best interests of Royal Mail or the taxpayer. I hope that the noble Lord is persuaded by my argument and I therefore ask him to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, it will not surprise the House that I will in due course withdraw the amendment pro tem, but that in no way assumes that our arguments have been overwhelmed by the firepower of the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, or the Minister.
The Liberal Democrats must have been reading too much Machiavelli recently. I am not surprised at that, given the extraordinary arrangements that they have been making with the Conservative Party, and I am sure that they are being kept awake at night wondering who is going to stab them in the front instead of in the back. As to the idea that the amendment is aimed at killing the Bill, we have experience of killing Bills but this would be a peculiar way of going about it. This is about helping the Government and society to avoid a fiasco by feeling our way on how this disposal will be carried out.
Is the noble Baroness prepared to respond on whether it is her view—along the lines of the view of noble Lord, Lord Razzall, for whom he knows I have the greatest respect—that we are living in fantasy land if we think that this sale can be carried out by way of an IPO. The alternative, presumably, is the Sheikh of Kuwait. It may be that Colonel Gaddafi is no longer the likeliest candidate. The alternative is an IPO. We will all avidly read Hansard tomorrow—which means that we will not—but I do not think I said that Hooper advocated an IPO. I said that the most likely presumption to be made after reading Hooper is that an IPO would be a strong candidate as the means of sale. If that is the case, the amendment is the exemplar and states that if the scenario is an IPO, some of the experiences of the IPOs in the 1980s should be borne in mind.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, I wonder whether it would be okay with your Lordships if I deal with the question put by my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale and supported by the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, before moving on to the amendment. Clause 1(2) ensures that the two major issues under Part 1, the ownership of Royal Mail and the ownership of Post Office Ltd, are addressed in the very first clause. We believe that, given their importance, this is appropriate. The purpose of subsection (2) is to assist the reader in understanding the full implications of the Bill. It is intended to highlight the relevant provisions that appear further on in the Bill and of which the reader might not yet be aware. Without subsection (2), the clause may read as lifting the restrictions on ownership of Post Office Ltd with no indication that new restrictions have been put in place further on in the Bill.
While the majority of readers will look at the full Bill and draw up relevant connections, we believe it is important to consider how to make the Bill accessible to those who may be unfamiliar with legislative text or to those with an interest in one particular aspect of the policy. It is these readers who may look at what they believe are the relevant provisions and then fail to see the other relevant provisions further on. Provisions such as Clause 1(2) are designed to assist readers by making explicit any interdependencies between clauses. Furthermore, subsection (2) ensures that the two major issues in Part 1—ownership of Royal Mail and ownership of Post Office Ltd—are addressed in the very first clause, thus reflecting their importance. I hope that this explanation addresses the concerns of noble Lords, but I am sure that they will come back for further clarification if they feel that we have not been able to cover the point at this stage.
Lord Lea of Crondall
As someone who is not directly involved in this, perhaps I may make an observation. It is plain common sense for the noble Baroness to say, in the light of the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, and my noble friend Lord Borrie, that it is no big deal, but this is not language appropriate to an Act of Parliament. Quite simply, will she agree to think about some answers on the back of a postcard before we move on to the next stage of the Bill?
Lord Lea of Crondall
Perhaps it would be convenient if I asked for confirmation from the noble Baroness at the same time as she answers the noble Lord, Lord Christopher. We all have the Bill in front of us. If I heard correctly, Clause 35 was drawn to our attention. That does not provide all the requirements that the noble Baroness referred to.
Baroness Wilcox
I am sorry. Ofcom has the power under Clause 35 to impose designated USP conditions akin to condition 16 in Royal Mail's existing licence, which does not allow it to do anything that would create a significant risk that necessary resources would not be available to continue its business. Is the noble Lord saying that his point is not there?
Lord Lea of Crondall
That point covers the universal service. The question of sovereign funds, and the other questions, are not covered by the clause; that is all I am saying.
Baroness Wilcox
Perhaps I may deal with that when we get to Section 35. I turn to the point of noble Lord, Lord Christopher.
Companies: Executive Remuneration
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox(13 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Wilcox
My Lords, we are in the middle of discussions about these very subjects. They are areas that have been under review for quite some time. Some people ask that shareholders should have separate votes, and some people ask the Government to intervene in all sorts of ways. There are ongoing discussions, particularly about the role of remuneration committees. I emphasise that it is for shareholders to go to shareholders’ meetings and say what they think.
Lord Lea of Crondall
My Lords, I was for many years a member of the Royal Commission on the Distribution of Income and Wealth which looked at data going back to the 19th century. We are now going back to the 19th century in so far as we had these ratios certainly before the First World War. Although it may be said that the gap occurred under a Labour Government—and some of us raised this question then—do this Government think it is satisfactory that it continues to grow, rather contracting?
Baroness Wilcox
I suppose what the noble Lord is really asking about is directors’ pay and fairness. That is where we all are now. I think we would all agree that there must be a robust link between the pay of those who run companies and the performance of those companies; that rewards for failure are not acceptable; and that exceptional rewards for mediocre performance are not in anybody’s best interest. I can assure noble Lords that this Government are very interested in making sure that companies are run well and that there is fairness in distribution on the payment for everybody in a company.
Minimum Wage
Debate between Lord Lea of Crondall and Baroness Wilcox
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox)
My Lords, the Low Pay Commission undertakes research and provides advice to the Government on issues related to the national minimum wage. The commission assessed developments in internships in its 2010 report and reported evidence that a growing number of people were undertaking unpaid internships. It did not report on the London area separately and it did not report any effect of the minimum wage on the number of unpaid internships.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the Minister for her reply, but it does not really address the anxieties of hundreds of thousands of young people for whom unpaid internship is their only option, despite their debts. First, will she commit HMG to producing some data, whether by random sample or otherwise, so that illegal practices can be identified and exposed? Otherwise her department will confirm its reputation as having no serious interest in enforcing the national minimum wage. Secondly, guidance on what is possible at the moment under the national minimum wage is really about what employers do not need to do, so will she look at the guidance and bring a Statement to the House before Christmas as to how it needs to be strengthened?
Baroness Wilcox
The Government of course recognise concerns about the increase in unpaid internships and the risk of exploitation and we are working to improve guidance on the status of interns and to raise awareness. We will ensure that enforcement of the national minimum wage continues to be effective and that resources are focused on where they will have the maximum impact. We want to make as many internships and work experience opportunities as possible available to our talented young people, from all backgrounds, because these opportunities may lead them into work in the future. Of course we wish to make sure that the guidance is clear and of course we wish to avoid people being abused—children particularly—in this way. At the same time, we want to be careful that we leave these opportunities for youngsters to gain good experience and possibly lead themselves into work in the future.