Good Work Plan

Lord Lea of Crondall Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Drake (Lab)]

My Lords, I too welcome the Government’s Statement on how they will implement the recommendations from the Taylor review as they open up the agenda on much-needed reforms to the labour market, particularly on the issue of one-sided flexibility where too much risk has been shifted on to the individual worker from the employer. The Government’s own Good Work Plan says:

“We will take firm action to tackle … where some businesses have transferred too much business risk to the individual, sometimes at the detriment of their financial security and personal wellbeing”.


I hope the Government will hold to that promise; people will watch closely how they honour it. There is strong evidence from both public and private sources on the levels of financial resilience that many workers lack, particularly in the face of income shocks. This lack of resilience is driven in part by a decline in the quality of the employment contract, whether that is revealed through variability in earnings, poor sick-pay provisions or ambiguous employment status. To begin to address financial resilience, one has to look at precisely what the Government have identified: the shift of risk on to the individual and the decline in the quality of the employment contract.

There are many questions I would like to ask but time does not allow. I refer to the part of the Statement that references Matthew Taylor’s call on the Government to improve access to justice, and I refer back again to the issue of tribunals. In their stated steps to improve the effectiveness of employment tribunals, have the Government decided to reintroduce fees for access to employment tribunals and employment appeal tribunals, so that the only matter being considered is how to reintroduce these fees, or are they still undecided on the reintroduction of fees? One has to bear in mind that, if workers cannot enforce their rights, these are rendered meaningless. We saw a staggering fall of 70% in claims brought to employment tribunals and a disproportionate impact of that fell on women, particularly low-paid and pregnant women.

The Statement also refers to the Government’s considering,

“the case for creating a new, single labour market enforcement agency”.

How would the remit of such an agency impact on the remit of ACAS and, in particular, on the ACAS role in conciliating on employment tribunal claims? When one reads what is intended for a new body, one can see an overlap with ACAS, so it would be useful to have some clarification. I reiterate what the noble Lord, Lord Fox, says that, notwithstanding the lateness of the hour, the reforms that could come out of this Statement from the Government, and the reach of those reforms, could be considerable, affecting many millions of people. When we get into the detail of the legislation, one can be sure that the numbers attending will be far higher than at this late hour.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I will respond to the noble Baroness and I look forward then to responding to the noble Lord. That is the order in which we normally do these things. I welcome the positive approach that the noble Baroness took in her comments on the Statement by my right honourable friend, about where it is going and how it might develop. I am not sure that I can answer her questions in much more detail than I have already set out to the two speakers for the Opposition Front Benches. A lot of this is ongoing work. There is much to be done and there will be further consultation. I appreciate that at times noble Lords feel that there is almost too much consultation but this is the right way forward on this process, having had the Taylor review and consulted on it, and having taken certain things forward.

The noble Baroness started off by talking about the one-sided nature of some contracts. She and I probably come from a very different position in terms of how we think a Government should act. I am sure that she believes that the Government should act a great deal more than is the case with my rather hands-off approach. However, I agree with her that, particularly with employment contracts—although one has also seen it in the past with landlord and tenant contracts—there can be occasions for Governments to intervene to bring in a degree of equality between the two parties. This is the approach that my right honourable friend sets out in his Statement and in the general approach that he has taken to contracts.

The noble Baroness then asked about fees. I do not think that I can go much further than I did in what I said earlier to her noble friend. We are reviewing the fee strategy following the UNISON judgment and are looking at the balance between charging direct users and using taxpayer subsidy. There will be further thoughts in due course on how that will develop and I am sure that we will bring them to her attention.

Lastly, the noble Baroness commented on the new enforcement agency proposals and on the impact that they were likely to have on ACAS. If I could say anything more at the moment, I would, or I will write to the noble Baroness, but, again, I think that that will be ongoing work. I hope that she will be patient and look forward to the completion of that work. I will now sit down and wait for the noble Lord, Lord Lea, to make his intervention.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his overview. I would like to pick up the point made by my noble friend Lady Drake about the quality of employment contracts. My last few years at the TUC were dominated by an attempt to put flesh and bones on to the quality of the employment contract. This is an important study but there is a very shallow focus, and perhaps I may explain what I mean by that.

If you talk to anybody about the economy—indeed, if you talk to anybody in the Treasury—and you compare our economy with other leading economies across the channel, you will find that our productivity performance is a major source of deep concern. Of course, this is also a matter of statistics. A higher level of employment with a rate of economic growth of, say, 2%, will probably mean lower growth in productivity. The problem of low productivity is a statistical inversion.

The big question facing the country on this front is: what are we going to do about the rate of growth of productivity? Productivity is the basis of living standards. To say that there is a lack of productivity is another way of saying that there is a growth of inequality of outcomes in the British labour force and a growing disenchantment among young people. This might go back to a growing inequality of opportunity in education. It is no criticism of this report and the Government’s response to it to ask the Minister to reflect on the fact that there are some huge problems that are not within the scope of this report, and it is the productivity puzzle.

One of the recommendations—number 14, I think—is about an adjustment to the information and consultation regulations. This interests me, as many continental countries have much more statutory regulation in this field than we do. When the trade unions in this country had double or treble the membership they have now—which is partly to do with the new types of employment relationship—it was very difficult. Does the Minister recognise that although this report ticks a lot of the boxes set up by Taylor, and is a step forward—whether on recognition, zero-hours contract issues, recognition of the IC regulations and so on—it is not as if this country looks as if it has a happy future economically?

There is nothing here about works councils or anything remotely like that; that is a key example. A friend of mine went to Gothenburg in Sweden to visit the company he was going to take over, and was invited to a buffet lunch with the works council, whose leader said, “We have one question, Mr Struthers. If you take over our company, how will that improve our world market share?” He got home to Peterborough or wherever it was and reported this and people were astonished that, at a works council, a workers’ representative had asked that. It is almost inconceivable because the world market share is not brought within the purview of our workers or their representatives—that is true to this day. It is a million light years away. We are looking through the other end of the telescope when it comes to these sorts of questions—the fundamental questions facing Britain, its social inequalities, its morale and so on. That should be the wider template upon which this discussion goes forward.

[Lord Henley]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention about the quality of employment contracts, the work he did 20 years ago when he was last at the TUC and his concerns about productivity, which he feels the Statement does not address. He connected those concerns about productivity with high employment, and I am grateful to him for stressing that we have high employment. I think there are now 32.48 million people in work, and that is something one can be very proud of. He is right to address productivity, but this Statement is not about productivity. I refer him back to the industrial strategy, which we published a year ago. He will remember our debate on it just under a year ago, on 6 or 7 January; I think that it was the first one we had when we came back from our Christmas Recess—let this year’s roll on. One of the things that my right honourable friend wanted to point to was the general problem that we have with productivity—to the extent that we can measure it, because it is a very difficult thing to measure. We accept that our productivity is not what it should be. In that industrial strategy we laid out a whole array of policies to address that point.

The noble Lord asked whether I would reflect on the problems of productivity. I give him an assurance and a guarantee that both myself and my right honourable friend—in fact the whole department and the whole Government, because that industrial strategy goes beyond the department and belongs to the Government —have concerns about productivity, and those concerns are addressed in that industrial strategy.