Trade Union Bill

Lord Lea of Crondall Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Lords Chamber

However, when I look at the records—this is where I genuinely plead a certain degree of ignorance—some of the information coming to me suggests that that undertaking given to me 32 years ago, on which I agreed not to proceed, has not been honoured; not in any dishonourable way, but in the lapse of time, perhaps in a situation, with change of Governments, where it was no longer thought to be so important. I just wonder why this situation has come again and how serious that issue is.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

The noble Lord, Lord King, who is a very honourable man, has taken us through the history accurately, as far as I can see. The lacuna at the end is as follows; will he comment on it? If he has information that has come to him, has he given it to the Minister? If he has, it is for the Minister to reply as to why the Government have not raised it with the TUC. As far as I am aware, these matters have not been raised directly, with evidence, between the Government and the TUC.

[Lord King of Bridgwater]

This is a very serious issue—the issue of whether people are being conned, whether a lot of union members are being taken on and where the unions are not abiding by that original undertaking. This is the value of Committee stage; we will move on from Committee and the special committee which is now looking at these issues will, no doubt, consider these matters as well. My understanding, having looked at the impact assessment, is that there are now 5 million members paying the political levy, some £24 million—is that per annum? I am not sure—and some 25 political funds, of which 12 make no mention at all, in their membership, of the political fund. When new membership forms go out to people who are thinking of joining ASLEF, PCS, the RMT and the TSSA, there is absolutely no reference to people’s rights, as new members, to opt out of the political levy.

Let me state my purpose in saying this. I do not know whether it is right or wrong; I have just seen a briefing to that effect and I think it is very important that we should check. I stand by the decision that I took; if it could be shown that there would be absolute observance of the rights of union members in these situations, and if this were honoured, it would certainly strengthen the argument against introducing this proposal. That is my concern.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Leigh of Hurley]

With great respect, private companies do have shareholders and have to produce annual accounts. The point that I am making is simply that there is money raised for political funds, and we do not know where 48% of it is allocated. It is entirely up to unions how they wish to allocate the money. The point I am making is that those people whose money is taken on an opt-out basis do not have the transparency that they might be given.

Let me help a little further. The point has been made, first, about whether it is fair and, secondly, that there have not been any complaints. I do not think it is enough to say that there have not been any complaints, given, in most cases, the very small sums that are taken on an opt-out system. I draw noble Lords’ attention to a poll of Unite members, undertaken in July 2013. The poll had a statistical margin of error of 3.67%. Before taking the poll, Unite members were asked a factual question: “In the 2010 election, how did you vote?”. Of the people questioned, 28% voted Conservative, 20% voted Lib Dem and 40% for the Labour Party. I am sure the political spending did not reflect that, but none the less that is how Unite members actually voted. They were also asked whether they contributed to the union’s political fund. Only 37% said that they believed they contributed to the political fund. That is factually incorrect, but that is what they thought. They were then asked: “Would you support or oppose Unite making further large donations to the Labour Party in the future?”. Some 49% of Unite members, when asked that question, said no. They may not be complaining, but are they really aware of what is going on and is it really fair that their money is taken on an opt-out basis?

Some people think that the rules should be changed so that members have to opt in—

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

The noble Lord says that we are not talking about the Conservative Party, only about the Labour Party. That is very convenient—but on the analogy that he is now presenting, reiterating and repeating all the time he is speaking, the same analysis of how Conservative Party finances work would come off a lot worse. It is really rather inequitable that he should make these unilateral statements about the Labour Party without recognising what goes on inside his own party.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley]

With respect, we are discussing the Trade Union Bill and the opt-in or opt-out of the Trade Union Bill. As I said, PPERA came in to deal with another matter separately, perfectly properly.