Financial Services Bill

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

What my noble friend has said is most helpful. Can he give us an indication of when the banking reform Bill is likely to reach this House? I am sure that noble Lords on all sides will be greatly interested in this.

[Lord Sassoon]

I shall probably get into trouble if I say anything that is terribly helpful. However, the Government want to get on with it as quickly as we reasonably can. I would like to think that it will not be very many months before the Bill gets here. But, whenever it arrives, it is no excuse for not getting on with these clauses.

Financial Services Bill

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 15th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, the question of the audit of banks is indeed an important one, and one which has recurred in policy debates over the past 20 years. I looked back to see what the Banking Act 1987 had to say on the topic and what Lord Justice Bingham had to say when he looked into the BCCI collapse. Various changes were made at that time and since in FiSMA but it is important that we learn lessons from the recent banking disasters, and I address the particularities of this amendment from a position of agreeing with the considerable concern around this issue. However, I do not believe that the amendment before us completely achieves what we are trying to do.

Clearly auditors are uniquely placed to identify and flag to the PRA current and potential risks in a firm. We would also expect the PRA to share relevant information with auditors, for example where it views a firm’s approach to asset valuation or provisioning to be significantly out of line with its peers. It is worth pointing out that there are areas in which the present regulator, the FSA, believes that auditors should be looking at particular issues and reporting on them and it can require that to be done in rules under Part 22 of FiSMA. So, for example, under the client asset rules, auditors are required to report on whether investment firms have properly segregated their client assets.

I do however have some difficulty with this particular amendment. My noble friend Lady Wheatcroft says that if only provision like this had been in place before or at the time of the crisis the auditors might have given a lot more help which might have prevented some of the disasters. On the other hand my noble friend Lord Lawson of Blaby quotes from your Lordships’ committee’s report which talks of the complacency of bank auditors at the time. Taking as read for the moment that the complacency thesis is the right one, I wonder if that complacency would have run through what was required to be done under a particular provision like this one in the amendment. I think that we are on to something important here but I am not convinced that this quite hits the sweet spot that the Committee is aiming for and that requiring auditors to provide this general narrative report will achieve what we want. Risk assessment is a highly-specialised process and it goes to the heart of the job of the prudential regulator. What I think we want of auditors is to see if there is something more that they can do which supports the prudential judgment rather than cuts across it.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

I am most grateful to my noble friend. Of course this is not the whole answer; I made that clear in my remarks. However, does he not think that this amendment would have been helpful and that it is therefore worthy of support from the Government?

[Lord Sassoon]

For the reasons that I have given, I am not absolutely convinced that it would have been helpful against the background of complacency of the bank auditors at the time of the crisis. Having said that, I agree with the Committee that there is something here that we need to look at further, so I want to see whether the Bill can and should go further to require the regulator to make the most of the expertise that auditors can undoubtedly offer. I am happy to take this issue away and consider whether there is an amendment that I can bring back at Report that recognises the important role of auditors without cutting across the role of the regulator in the way that I believe this particular amendment may do. I will look at it and come back to the House with something that addresses this area. On that basis I hope—

Eurozone

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 9th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

On the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, about the cause of the weaker growth in this country, the Office for Budget Responsibility and other commentators have identified the eurozone as a major source of threat to our growth and of weakness. Significant parts of the eurozone are plainly now in recession. I agree with my right honourable friend David Lidington about the need for more Europe in many areas including, particularly, more completion of the single market. That is why it is important that the four-presidency proposal referred to in the Council conclusions at the end of June will include,

“concrete proposals on preserving the … integrity of the Single Market”.

That is critical, as are the many growth initiatives included in those conclusions.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, we all wish to see a successful European economy, but is my noble friend not aware that the so-called success of the European Council a fortnight ago has already disappeared, the financial markets have put the interest rate on Spanish sovereign debt back to where it was before, nothing was achieved, nothing can be achieved in this way and the sooner that it is realised that this project, however well intentioned, is a terrible mistake, the better?

[Lord Sassoon]

I certainly agree with my noble friend that we delude ourselves if we think that words coming out of one meeting of European leaders are going to solve all the problems. Part of the problem seems to have been a belief that the crisis can somehow be dealt with by fine words. I believe that in the underlying work— whether on the two pack, the six pack, or the intergovernmental treaty—there is the beginning of a construct of great significance to underpin the eurozone.

Businesses: Tax Liability

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, before I get what I might call my noble friend Lady Trumpington’s question, “What on earth are we talking about?”, it might be helpful to give a little background. Landfill tax is payable by landfill site operators per tonne of waste put into their sites. It is sometimes called by the press “the skip tax”.

Recently HMRC responded to concerns expressed by some landfill operators that certain companies were not paying the correct rate of tax and in that process were disadvantaging those companies that were paying the correct rate of tax. There is no new tax policy here. The rates of landfill tax have not changed, but HMRC issued guidance in response to that request. Since the issuance of that guidance, there has been some misinterpretation which HMRC has sought to correct. I appreciate that there may still be some residual concerns, and I am very happy to facilitate a meeting. Because it is an operational matter, I suggest that the person who it would be most helpful to meet is the director at HMRC who is directly responsible, and I will help to set that up.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

This Question concerns Customs and Excise. Is the Minister aware that a report published by the Institute of Fiscal Studies last year pointed out that, while some unhealthy foods are subject to the standard rate for VAT, there are many other unhealthy foods which are zero-rated? Would he care to suggest to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that no unhealthy foods should be zero-rated? I am sure that the Chancellor could do with the additional revenue.

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I think that we probably call it Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs these days. That aside, I will of course pass on my noble friend’s representations on this important matter.

Eurozone

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 17th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, as I explained, there are no requests for further assistance on the table at the moment, so it would be entirely hypothetical to discuss what our further commitments might be. However, as I have said, as of July this year, the permanent European stability mechanism comes in. The UK is not party to the agreement to establish that mechanism and there will be no further commitments from the UK under the European financial stability mechanism from July this year. The IMF does not support the eurozone or any other currency union. It is there to support individual countries, and any assistance is considered country by country on the merits of each case.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister is causing some of us a little concern. Why did he not answer the Question on the Order Paper with a simple no?

[Lord Sassoon]

Because it is a complicated Question, which deserved a somewhat fuller Answer.

Environment: Green Growth

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 16th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the private residence capital gains tax relief means that most people are not liable for capital gains tax on their main residences. If access to that relief were linked to energy efficiency improvements, not only would it override the broad policy aim of that relief—that people are encouraged to save for their house—but what about the large number of people who do not necessarily have the funds to be able to improve the efficiency of their homes? Is it really the position of the Opposition that capital gains tax relief on people’s main residences would be taken away if they were not able to afford efficiency improvements? That is certainly not the policy of this Government.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, will my noble friend slightly contain his green enthusiasm? Is he aware that the Green Alliance’s headline for the paper to which the noble Baroness referred is “Save tax relief for low-carbon savings and investments”? It is arguing—it may be the view of the Opposition—that all reliefs for savings, investor start-up and business should be abolished except for those devoted to greenery, which should be increased. Will my noble friend confirm that that is not the policy of Her Majesty’s Government?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I can indeed confirm that that is not the policy of Her Majesty’s Government.

Economy: Credit Easing Policy

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 26th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I fear that I will not be able to do justice to all the six questions that I thought I detected, but let me try to deal with one or two. First, we should distinguish between credit easing, which is the policy announced by the Chancellor and made manifest in the national loan guarantee scheme, and quantitative easing, which is the responsibility of the Bank of England. As to quantitative easing, if the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, had asked me I would have answered that the Bank of England’s own assessment is that under quantitative easing the economy has benefited by between 1.5 to 2 per cent. One can therefore draw inferences from that for what a more limited scheme targeted at small businesses will achieve.

As to the question of the levels of investment in the economy, that is set out in the latest report from the Office for Budget Responsibility. It is therefore its independent figures, not mine, which point out that the fall-off in levels of business investment and the expected sharp recovery very much follow the pattern seen in the recession of the early 1990s. It is territory that we have been in before and the Government believe that we should respond in the ways that we have. As to the evidence that the national loan guarantee scheme is gaining traction, Barclays has already issued a £1.5 billion bond backed by the scheme, and Lloyds has issued $1.4 billion since the scheme started on 20 March. So it is indeed, unlike some of the schemes introduced by the previous Government, up and running and having an effect.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the very recently published unanimous report of the Economic Affairs Committee of this House on development aid which urged the Government to abandon the wholly arbitrary target of allocating 0.7 per cent of GDP for development aid? Is he further aware that if the Government were to accept this all-party recommendation there would be scope for expediting carefully chosen public investment plans, to the great benefit of the economy and without infringing the Government’s overall public expenditure plans?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I think that we are straying a little bit but my noble friend has, of course, ultimately tied it back to the Question. Of course, if lots of other things were changed in government policy then we could free up money for all sorts of other good things. The Government have no intention—notwithstanding the excellent report from your Lordships’ committee—of changing their policy on development aid.

Banking: Accounting Standards

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 19th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, having a look at accounting standards in relation to banks is certainly significant. I would not go as far as saying that IFRS had a fundamental role in relation to the financial crisis. There is not significant evidence of that although, as I have had it rather neatly described, you could perhaps describe accounting standards as an accomplice after the fact rather than as being responsible. There are issues that very much need to be looked at. The review that the IASB is doing, very much with the encouragement of the G20, of the financial instruments standard known as IFRS 9, the work that the Financial Reporting Council is doing, which I have referred to, the inquiries coming out of your Lordships’ committee and the most recent hearing last week will all contribute to an important ongoing debate.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that my noble friend Lord Flight is on to a very important point? It is quite clear that accounting standards have created a major reduction in stability in the banking sector. They had a major part to play, and IFRS has simply made this worse. Has my noble friend the Minister read the Hansard report of the debate in the Grand Committee of Wednesday last week, in which these matters were among those discussed? If not, will he please do so and will he also listen to what Mr Andy Haldane, the director of banking stability at the Bank of England, which is responsible for these matters, has had to say on them?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I have not read every word that was said in the Committee last week, but I have certainly read the very interesting remarks of my noble friend Lord Lawson of Blaby and the very challenging seven proposals that he made, many of which the Government are already acting on in the structure of banking and regulation. I do not dismiss this issue at all, but there is a tension between the transparency and other requirements of investors on the one hand and the requirements of prudential regulators on the other. There are very difficult issues of conflicting objectives here, which it may be impossible for one set of figures fully to reconcile. However, I take my noble friend’s suggestions very much to heart.

EU: Economic and Financial Issues

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 12th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I really cannot add anything to the previous discussions we have had on a number of occasions. It is nice to have the question asked by a different noble Lord this time, but I cannot add anything to what has been said before.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, reverting to the original Question, would it not be extraordinarily hypocritical and rather puzzling to the British people if we were to sign a fiscal compact to which we had not the slightest intention of being party?

[Lord Sassoon]

Absolutely. I completely agree with my noble friend.

Budget Deficit

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 15th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I shall try to deal with at least some of the noble Lord’s supplementary questions. First, there is a process of exchanging and discussing numbers between the OBR and the Treasury under the memorandum of understanding. The details of all communications between the OBR and Ministers will be published in due course on the OBR’s website, as they were in the run-up to last year’s Budget.

Secondly, on the question of the deficit reduction plan, it is interesting to look at the recent IFS green budget, which does a comparison between the coalition plans and the relatively sober Alistair Darling plans rather than the Ed Balls plans. The comparison shows that up to 2016-17 the cumulative impact of Mr Darling’s policy would have been that debt under a Labour Government was £201 billion higher than it will be under the forecast for the coalition Government. As the markets have made clear this week, if we listened to suggestions about making increased spending commitments now, our interest rates would go sky high and our industry would be crippled. We are sticking to our plans, but the private sector will contribute to significant infrastructure investment of the sort that both the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, and I would welcome.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, is it not the case that the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, despite his great experience, needs even at his age to learn a little patience? Is it not the case that if there were some short cut to resuming growth, the Government would take it?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, it is indeed the case. If my noble friend had such a short cut, I am sure he would have told the House what it was.

Eurozone Crisis

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, as I have repeatedly made clear this afternoon and on other occasions, the UK Government want to see a strong and dynamic eurozone and European economy. But it is for the eurozone countries to take the lead in supporting the euro as a currency.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, there is only one thing as worrying as the collapse of the eurozone, and that is the continuation of the eurozone. It has been demonstrated to be fundamentally flawed and is the cause of all these problems. Is the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, not right that at the heart of the thing that we need to address is the risk of a banking meltdown? Will the Minister give an undertaking that should it prove necessary for the United Kingdom Government to rescue any British banks, they will do so on much tougher terms than the ludicrously soft terms on which the previous Administration went in to save banks?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, we have a lot to learn about the softness with which the previous Administration went about a lot of things. One of the key lessons for this crisis is that we must stick to a deficit reduction programme that is firm and fair, and keep this country isolated from the worst of the problems that are all around us.

Economy: Private Capital Investment

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, to be clear, the three measures that I mentioned in my opening Answer were indeed new and additional measures, the costings of which are given in the Autumn Statement.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

Does my noble friend expect that the important changes in the relationship with the Royal Bank of Scotland that the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced yesterday might lead to more lending by the Royal Bank of Scotland to small and medium-sized enterprises?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, that is a very interesting question. The board of RBS has made it clear that it is going to concentrate its business on its corporate and personal banking and therefore, certainly relative to its total business, it will indeed achieve that.

Euro

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 27th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

I really do think that the noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, puts up completely false choices and alternatives here. The fact is that significant progress has been made overnight to stabilise the eurozone. A lot more work needs to be done to fill in the detail but that is a first major step. I see that the noble Lord is nodding his head. That is point number one. Secondly, the idea that the UK is going to be marginalised in the “euro-outs” is simply not true. On Sunday, the Prime Minister established the key principle that we would be there, as we were yesterday, with a voice at the table on all matters involving all 27 EU member states. The idea behind the Question is that somehow it is just the UK versus the rest. We must be reminded that the other euro-outs include Poland, Sweden, Hungary, the Czech Republic and four others. We will play a critical part in driving forward the single market, and that is very important to the euro area.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that it is a fundamental fact that monetary union in the eurozone is not viable short of a fiscal union, and that a fiscal union cannot come into being without full political union, which fortunately is as improbable as it is undesirable?

[Lord Sassoon]

My noble friend Lord Lawson of Blaby cuts to the chase with singular directness. I think that this is an onion with many layers to it and we need to go stage by stage. Having established the immediate priority of the stabilisation of the eurozone, of course the strengthening of the fiscal arrangements within the eurozone is the second priority. The Government signed up to that during the summer and the implementation of that needs to be taken forward. It is in the UK’s interest that that happens. It may lead, as the overnight statement said, to treaty changes and, as a consequence of that, the UK Government will seek to ensure that they take advantage of any opportunity to advance the UK’s interest. I think we need to regard this as a step-by-step process.

Banking: Quantitative Easing

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 10th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I think we risk straying from the Question. I know that, in a masterly wheeze, words about QE were added to this Question late in the day by the noble Lord, Lord Barnett. I think that quantitative easing is one of many questions relevant to the sale of bank shares but a relatively small consideration in present circumstances. Given that the Question is about the sale of bank shares, this is one of many factors that is relevant.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, although privatisation of RBS and the Lloyds Banking Group—ideally after separating completely the retail and investment operations of the two groups—is clearly some way off, does my noble friend recognise that the immediate need is for the Government to adopt a much more hands-on relationship with them than hitherto to ensure an adequate flow of lending to small businesses?

[Lord Sassoon]

I very much agree with my noble friend that the immediate priority is not so much consideration of the sale of the banks—UKFI will continue to monitor that closely—but to keep credit flowing. In relation to that, the Merlin agreement is critical. We treat the management of RBS and Lloyds on an arm’s-length basis, but we will ensure, as we have, that we have an agreement with all the major banks to increase lending on what it was last year and what it otherwise would have been. The third quarterly numbers will be released under the Merlin agreement shortly.

Banking: Lloyds and RBS Shares

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 30th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, what I said is that we are considering all options for the disposal of the shares in RBS and Lloyds Banking Group. My right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister has asked the Treasury to consider a particular disposal option, and that is what UKFI and the Treasury are doing.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

Will my noble friend tell the Treasury that there is no need to consider this tired old suggestion for long? It was fully considered in 1979 when we embarked on the original privatisation programme and I am sure that his officials will be very pleased to give him all the old papers showing that it bristles with practical difficulties, not least the precise method of allocation, quite apart from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Barnett. Will my noble friend also bear in mind the wise words of that great radical, Thomas Paine:

“What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly”.

Banking: Government Shares

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 13th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

Number one, this is a Question about the disposal of bank shares; number two, I would not believe everything that you read on the front page of the Financial Times every day.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, in saying that financial stability should be one of the considerations in the disposal, which I warmly welcome, does my noble friend agree that an element of that financial stability must be ensuring the greatest possible separation between retail banking and investment banking?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I will wait with interest to see what the final report of the independent commission led by Sir John Vickers says on that point but, as indicated in its interim report, it is at the heart of its deliberations. The Government await with interest its final report.

Banks: Cheques

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 6th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the facts of the situation are that the number of cheques being used has declined dramatically in recent years. There were approximately 4 billion cheques in use in 1990 and by 2009 that had reduced to approximately 1 billion—and it is expected to reduce very significantly again over the next few years. The fact is that the system has declined in use and it will require a very expensive rewrite of the clearing systems if it is to continue in its present form. The last thing that the Government or users of cheques would want to see is charges being passed on to users of cheques if that was a result of banks having to put in place an expensive new system. So one has to be pragmatic about this and give them the time, which they are taking, to come up with an alternative, including a paper-based alternative, that is acceptable to small businesses, charities and other individuals.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, I am sure the whole House will have welcomed the Answer that the Minister gave to my noble friend’s initial Question, but will he go a little bit further? Will he undertake to use the power of the Government’s holdings in a number of banks—and the way that those banks are privatised, as I hope they will be—to encourage competition in retail banking in this country and, as part of that competition, to try to encourage at least one of the new entrants to continue to provide a checking service?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I am happy to confirm to my noble friend that competition is key to so much of making our banking system work better than it has in some respects in the recent past. That is precisely why the Independent Commission on Banking was given competition as the heart of its remit. Whether in relation to alternative payment mechanisms or to so many other things in banking, I completely agree that competition has to be at the heart of it. Again, when it comes to the Government’s shareholdings in the banks, the independent commission has made some provisional findings which very much touch on the banks that the Government control.

EU: European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 31st March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, they are both correct. It may be helpful if I explain the situation a bit further. The discussion on which there was consensus concerned the process that would apply at the ECOFIN meeting on 9 May. There was no consensus on the question of the underlying policy matter. As my right honourable friend the Chancellor said in his written evidence to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee:

“The purpose of the phone call was not to reach agreement, but for Mr Darling to consult me on the course of action he proposed. Given he was still Chancellor of the Exchequer at that point, representing the UK in a dynamic negotiating environment, it was for him to reach decisions. He did this, aware of my views”.

That is the evidence of my right honourable friend the Chancellor.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that, whatever precisely may have happened on that regrettable occasion in the recent past, so far as the future is concerned there is firm agreement between us and the European Union that, when the present mechanism is replaced by a new mechanism in a couple of years’ time, we shall not be part of or bound by that new mechanism?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Lawson of Blaby, who, as is customary, brings us back to what is really important. I can absolutely confirm what he says. At the European Council on 17 December 2010, this Government did what the previous Government failed to do, which was to get agreement that there would be an amendment to the treaty that would achieve a permanent mechanism to be established by the member states of the euro area to safeguard the financial stability of the euro area as a whole. Therefore, it is indeed correct that, as of 2013 at the latest, the United Kingdom, being outside the euro area, will not be part of this mechanism. That is the critical point, which I can confirm.

Independent Commission on Banking

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Monday 28th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, this afternoon we are talking about the Independent Commission on Banking. Questions of pay structures have not been set by the Government as part of the commission’s remit and it is sticking to a series of other questions.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on having set up this independent commission, which must produce the right result. I agree with the remarks of my noble friend Lady Kramer, and the speech of Sir John Vickers the other day very much echoed the identification of those problems. I hope that we can get international agreement but does my noble friend agree that it is important to do the right thing even if we cannot get that agreement?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I certainly agree with my noble friend. He has been thinking about these things for many years and I very much value his thoughts on them. I absolutely agree that the UK wants to do the right thing, but the remit that the commission has been given also reflects the international and global contexts, of which we have to be mindful. I wait with interest to see what the commission says and repeat that I do not want in any way to prejudge its thinking.

Financial Services: Shareholder Engagement

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, this is an ongoing challenge but institutional shareholders over the last few years—under considerable pressure from the previous Government, I am happy to say—have taken steps to make sure that, where they are representatives of pension funds or other representatives, they are more active in exercising proper stewardship in the votes of the underlying shareholders they represent. I recognise that it is an important issue.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the problems of shareholder involvement in so far as the banks are concerned is that auditors are reluctant to qualify the accounts of a bank in any way whatsoever, even if they have reservations, because this might lead to a run on the bank? Does he agree that the answer is what I put in the Banking Act 1987—to have a mandatory dialogue between the regulators and the auditors of banks so that there can be two-way communication, which unfortunately went largely by the board with the changes in legislation under the previous Government?

[Lord Sassoon]

I am grateful to my noble friend for reminding us of the importance of audit, particularly in relation to banks. It enables me to remind us all that the Economic Affairs Committee of your Lordships’ House will, I hope, play an important part in the broader ongoing debate about stewardship when it comes up with its current report into the role of auditors.

Charities: VAT

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Thursday 13th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

I reiterate that it is important that we recognise that there are significant benefits within the VAT system for charities and that we have exemptions from the general EU rules on VAT that are not enjoyed by charities anywhere else in Europe. It is also the case that other proposals for increases in taxes would have hit charities significantly higher. If, for example, the previous Government’s proposals on increases in national insurance contributions had not been reversed by this Government, there would have been a significantly higher burden on charities than the regrettable increase in the level of irrecoverable VAT. I do not think that we should take this issue in total isolation.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

Does the Minister agree with the principle that I set out when I was Chancellor that if one wishes to encourage charities through the tax system, which I approve of, it should be through concessions for charitable giving, not through relieving particular charities from tax?

[Lord Sassoon]

I agree that tax relief related to charitable giving is a critical part of the piece. Indeed, gift aid is running at some £1 billion a year and is a very successful and important scheme.

EU: Financial Assistance

Debate between Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Sassoon

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I did not intend to be evasive but to give a factually correct Answer in respect of Articles 125 and 122. I was not asked whether we thought it was proper to use Article 122 in this way. As to whether it is proper to extend loans, to answer a question that the noble Lord did ask, we have decided, in the exceptional case of Ireland, which is our fifth largest trading partner, that it is in the interests of the UK economy to extend a bilateral loan to it. That does not mean that we will participate in any other permanent arrangements that may be put in place for the eurozone.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

Can my noble friend confirm that, as our right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer told the Economic Affairs Committee of this House very recently, it is Her Majesty's Government’s firm commitment to withdraw from the European Union’s financial stability mechanism at the earliest opportunity—obviously while wishing the European Union every possible economic success?

[Lord Sassoon]

I am grateful to my noble friend, because his question enables me to say that Article 122.2, under which the financial stability mechanism was set up, was originally intended to provide support for member states following natural disasters. It was European Finance Ministers, before my right honourable friend the Chancellor took office, who decided in May to apply that article to deal with the eurozone crisis at that time. It is absolutely the position that my right honourable friend who is now the Chancellor opposed the use of the article at that time and in that way. It is the Government’s position that this is a temporary solution and should absolutely not be the permanent way of doing things.