Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lansley and Lord Frost

Report stage
Wednesday 5th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 56 stands in my name. As it is, I guess, the last time that I will speak on this Bill, perhaps I may use the opportunity to join others in saying thank you to the Ministers for the willingness they have shown to meet us and to show flexibility on parts of the Bill, even if that flexibility has possibly been more evident on its more marginal and peripheral aspects than on the core provisions, which matter so much to us. I thank them anyway for it.

One of those core provisions, which we have debated at length, is of course Clause 2(7), which creates the power to align UK legislation with EU law. My Amendment 56 would ensure that the affirmative parliamentary procedure applied to such secondary legislation under that provision. This is important, as the procedure of legislating by cross-reference to the laws of another entity is certainly, to borrow terminology from another sphere, novel and contentious. Therefore, if it happens—I am sure it is going to happen and probably quite a lot, I fear—it really ought to do so only consciously and according to a procedure that gives both of this Parliament’s Houses the maximum powers to be aware that it is happening and to influence it to the maximum possible. Of course, that is what the affirmative procedure is about. I hope that, even at this late stage, the Ministers might look favourably on this amendment in the interests of respecting the rights and powers of this Parliament.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, if I may briefly intervene in this group, we had a substantive debate on Monday, in which I participated, where we looked at the recommendations from the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. As we noted, it welcomed some of the amendments, which we technically have not reached but which were debated then. They are Amendments 44 to 46, which have largely removed the Henry VIII powers. To that extent, therefore, I note that although my noble friend may come on to speak about Amendment 48, in practice that amendment is designed to prevent the use of Henry VIII powers. However, the Government have tabled amendments that have largely removed that risk.

I very much support Amendment 56 in the names of my noble friends Lord Sharpe of Epsom and Lord Frost. In so far as the Government have not done what the Delegated Powers Committee looked for, which was for all these regulation-making powers to be subject to the affirmative procedure, it seems that we should focus our attention on where there is still the most important deficiency. It also seems that, precisely for the reasons that my noble friend Lord Frost gave, which I will not repeat, at its most extreme, the power in Clause 2(7) would literally be if the Government brought forward a regulation saying that all the product requirements in this country would be met in so far as they corresponded to the General Product Safety Regulation issued by the European Union, which, of course, came out in December 2024. They could easily come forward with such a regulation. That would be sweeping in its effect, and it would be on a negative basis.

Northern Ireland: Supply of Medicines

Debate between Lord Lansley and Lord Frost

Thursday 9th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, we would love to find an agreement if one were available. We think that the proposal that we made to take medicines out of the protocol entirely would be the simplest way of solving this problem, but we continue to look at the proposals that the EU has put on the table. At the moment, we do not have the necessary detail or understanding of the texts to enable us to accept these proposals, but we continue to talk.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the simplest and probably best solution would be if there were mutual recognition between the United Kingdom and the EU of the authorisations of the European Medicines Agency and our MHRA? That would be a bilateral, trade-related solution that would also serve the needs of Northern Ireland.

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, that might indeed be a solution; it has not been part of the discussions so far, and I think that the regulators on both sides guard their discretion closely and the ability to proceed at the speeds that they think best, as we have seen this year on vaccine licensing.

Brexit Opportunities

Debate between Lord Lansley and Lord Frost

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, the purpose of these reforms is, in the long run, to improve the productivity of the UK by putting in place regulations that are tailored to our conditions, rather than the average. So the goal of this Government is to improve productivity, growth and prosperity for everybody after Brexit. That is obviously one of the metrics on which the British people will make their judgment when the time arises.

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the business community, which faces considerable pressures on costs and competitiveness, will be pleased to hear about the standing commission and the opportunity to address regulatory issues. However, will my noble friend add something about the Government’s quantified objectives in this regard? Last year, not including the effects of Covid, Brexit or Grenfell, regulation on business increased by £5.7 billion while the Government’s target was a net-zero increase. So what kind of objectives are the Government looking for in this regard, and will he and the Government confirm the importance of independent verification of that by the Regulatory Policy Committee?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, the matters that my noble friend raised in his question are germane to the consultation on the regulatory framework, which I touched on and which obviously is still open—so I do not want to get ahead of that. I certainly very much agree with his general proposition that there is a kind of dead weight that tends to move in one direction, and it takes a lot of effort to push back against it and improve regulatory conditions overall. As I said, the possibility of “one in, x out” is one way of doing that, but there are other ways, and we are looking into how Governments around the world, including national sub-states and so on, have achieved this—so we will have more to say on that question.