Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 12th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

It is for the primary care trust to appraise the options and decide which is best for local people. The SHA has a role in providing assurance in that process, but I would urge both the PCT and the SHA to ensure that they meet the test that we are looking for, which is that any decision must be in the best clinical interests of patients and must meet the views of clinical commissioners in the future and, indeed, those of the public, not least as expressed through the local authority. I would urge the PCT and the SHA to make progress on that, and, if it would be of any assistance to my hon. Friend, I would be glad if he were able to meet me, the PCT and the local authority to help to resolve the issue.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

In their 2010 NHS White Paper, the Government promised legislation on a new legal and financial framework for social care. However, last month’s Queen’s Speech included only a draft Bill, on social care law alone. We cannot tackle the care crisis without tackling the funding crisis, so will the Secretary of State now agree to Labour’s call for legislation on a new system for funding social care in this Parliament? Yes or no?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady will know very well that last year we made it clear that we intended to publish both a White Paper on the reform of social care law and, alongside it, a progress report on the reform of the funding of adult care. We still intend to do both those things, and to do so soon.

NHS Risk Register

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Wednesday 22nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Today’s debate has shown that we have a Government who refuse to be open about the risks of their health Bill and arrogantly reject the widespread concerns of patients, the public, and NHS staff. Instead of providing the leadership that the NHS needs, Ministers have left staff struggling to cope with the effects of their damaging Bill.

Unlike the Government, the NHS is facing up to its responsibilities by publishing local risk registers to try to mitigate the effects of the Government’s plans. NHS North of England warns that the Government’s reorganisation has a high risk of compromising patient safety, as knowledge about how to deal with mistakes and adverse patient events is lost. NHS Midlands and East says that there is a high risk that waiting times will suffer, primary care will be neglected, and joint working with councils will be undermined. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) said, NHS London warns that there is a high risk that clinical commissioning groups will not have the skills they need, and that the NHS will fail to deliver either the best outcomes for patients or the best value for taxpayers’ money. NHS Milton Keynes warns that there is a high risk of failure to deliver its statutory requirements, leading to significant harm or fatalities of children and vulnerable adults. That point was raised by several of my hon. Friends, and particularly eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell).

However, the Government are not concerned about the risks that the Bill poses to patients, only to their own political prospects. In the past few weeks, we have witnessed the unedifying spectacle of Conservative Ministers scrambling to distance themselves from the wreckage of their Bill and desperately pointing the finger of blame. An anonymous source in No. 10 told The Times that the Health Secretary

“should be taken out and shot.”

Anonymous Cabinet Ministers have told ConservativeHome that the Bill is as bad as the poll tax, that it must be dropped and that the Secretary of State must be replaced. The Financial Times has said that the Chancellor is worried that the Bill will retoxify the Conservative brand. Apparently, the Deputy Prime Minister is furious that the Tory in-fighting is ruining his attempts to get his party and MPs on board. The Secretary of State accuses the British Medical Association of being “politically poisoned” in opposing the Bill; I say that the source of the poison is all on his own side.

[Mr Lansley]

Just so that the record is clear, when I referred to the phrase “politically poisoned”, I was not saying it myself, but quoting Aneurin Bevan’s description of the BMA.

[Liz Kendall]

I notice that the Secretary of State does not deny that members of his own Cabinet and Conservative and Liberal Democrat Back Benchers are concerned about the Bill.

Instead of fighting among themselves, the Government should be relentlessly focused on ensuring that the NHS meets the challenges of the future. Our ageing population, the increase in long-term conditions, and the huge medical and technical advances mean that the NHS must continue to change to improve patient care and deliver better value for taxpayers’ money. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) said, that means shifting the focus of services into the community and more towards prevention, so that people stay fit and healthy for longer. It means centralising some health services in specialist centres so that patients benefit from medical advances and get the best standards of care. It also means ensuring that local NHS and council services work together so that older and disabled people can stay living independently in their own home.

The NHS needs service reform, not structural reform. The Bill will make the changes impossibly hard to achieve. The recent Health Committee report on social care states that the best examples of integrated services have been achieved by care trusts, which were set up under the Labour Government, and yet those are being swept away by the Bill. In 2009, NHS London centralised stroke services into eight hyper-acute units. That decision was very controversial at the time, but within six months it had more than tripled the number of patients getting vital clot-busting drugs to the highest rate of any large city in the world. The Bill will put strategic service changes such as that at risk.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Kendall]

With the greatest respect to the right hon. Gentleman, I will not waste my time on that point when we have important issues about the future of the NHS to discuss.

Government Members should realise that GPs, nurses, midwives, health visitors, public health professionals, psychiatrists, physiotherapists, radiologists and Opposition Members are against the Bill, not because we are against change, but because it will prevent the changes that the NHS needs.

Government Members do not want to talk about part 3 of the Bill, because they know that people do not want their NHS run like any other market. The Secretary of State and the Prime Minister claim that their Bill is all about cutting bureaucracy and putting patients and clinicians in control, yet the Department of Health now admits in its fascinating document, “Design of the NHS Commissioning Board”, that there will be five layers of management in the Government’s new NHS, except in the performance and operations directorate, in which

“an additional layer (or layers) will be required”.

In place of strategic health authorities and primary care trusts, we will now have the NHS Commissioning Board, four commissioning sectors, 50 local offices, commissioning support units, clinical senates and clinical commissioning groups, as well as Public Health England and the health and wellbeing boards. Patients and staff have been left completely confused about who is responsible for running different services and how they will be held to account.

The Government say that the new structure will cost £492 million a year.

[Mr Lansley]

rose—

[Liz Kendall]

Let me continue to explain this point. I have given way to the Secretary of State already and I want to finish my point.

According to the Government’s own document, the cost of running commissioning support units and commissioning for Public Health England is not included in the costs that have been given. Indeed, it states:

“The costs of providing clinical advice to the wider system will be separately funded.”

That prompts the question, what are all those different organisations doing if they are not helping to improve clinical care? The Government are not cutting red tape, they are increasing it, and they are not liberating clinicians but suffocating them—not my words but those of the NHS Alliance and the National Association of Primary Care, which used to champion the Bill.

Perhaps the Secretary of State should listen to the advice of Dr Peter Bailey, a GP and former chair of a commissioning group in his own constituency. He recently told Pulse magazine that GPs have

“been duped…set up to fail…We stand baffled in the wreckage…put down the sledgehammer. Get rid of the Bill.”

The Secretary of State should listen to the good doctor’s advice. He should grant the freedom of information request submitted by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and publish the risk register. He should listen to the 78 Opposition Members and 15 Liberal Democrat Members who have signed the early-day motion tabled by my admirable hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) calling for the register to be published.

Even today, as this debate has taken place, the Information Commissioner has told the Evening Standard that he thinks the Government should publish the risk register while peers are still debating the Bill. He has said:

“Where proposals are particularly contentious and with far-reaching consequences, it’s better for more information to be available for a broader discussion about the pros and cons before everything’s decided. By enabling people to express their views on proposals, the final decision will be better informed and better understood.”

I say to Liberal Democrat Members that voting for the motion will show that they really support the early-day motion that they have already signed. It will show their constituents that on this issue, they mean what they say and are different from Conservative Members.

Parliament has a right to know the risks of the legislation that it is debating, and the public have a right to understand the true risks of the Government’s reckless NHS plans. I commend the motion to the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I entirely understand my hon. Friend’s point. I of course will not prejudice whatever might be said in relation to that, but I will look at the report very carefully when it is presented.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Social care is vital for reducing winter pressures on the NHS by helping to keep older people out of hospital, but the Government are cutting funding for older people’s social care by £1.3 billion. Delayed discharges from hospitals are already up 11% from this time last year. The Minister responsible for care said in Westminster Hall on 10 November:

“cuts to front-line adult social care services are really beginning to bite.”—[Official Report, 10 November 2011; Vol. 535, c. 178WH.]

Does the Secretary of State agree?

[Mr Lansley]

I have to say to the hon. Lady that it was this Government who, through the spending review, gave priority to social care. More than £7 billion was added to the social care budget as a consequence of the steps taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and by the NHS. This year the NHS is providing an additional £648 million specifically to support adult social care. In addition, I have announced our Warm Homes Healthy People funding for this winter, which will provide additional support for those most urgently in need.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I understand that Kent and Medway primary care trust is working to incentivise the optimisation of medicines usage. We provide advice through the National Prescribing Centre and in other ways, and we support that work with GPs through the structure of the quality and outcomes framework. However, this is about incentivisation for best prescribing practice, not about financial penalties.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Many families will be deeply concerned about standards of care for older people in hospitals following the Care Quality Commission’s recent report. Patients and the public must be confident that all the necessary steps are being taken immediately to tackle this issue. Months after its initial inspections, will the Minister confirm that the CQC has revisited only six of the 17 hospitals that were failing to ensure that older people had enough food and drink, and if so, can he explain why?

[Mr Lansley]

Let me make it clear to the hon. Lady, whom I welcome to her new responsibilities, that the reason the Care Quality Commission undertook unannounced nurse-led inspections in hospitals to look at issues of dignity and nutrition was that I asked it to. As an independent regulator, it must make its own decisions about what it does, but I have been clear in my conversations with the Care Quality Commission that it is moving from the tick-box regulatory approach inherited from Labour to one focused on going out there and finding out where there is poor performance. The CQC is shining a light—not least at our request—on poor performance and poor care in the NHS, and it will continue to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I certainly will. Indeed, the Minister of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), and I launched the outcomes strategy for mental health earlier this year, in order to make it absolutely clear that across the NHS, and indeed public health, we ensure that mental health services attract the right priority and focus as we develop outcome measures.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has promised that waiting times will not rise despite his massive NHS reorganisation, but we now know that in May 15,500 patients waited more than six weeks for their diagnostic tests—four times as many as last year—and that 1,800 waited more than three months, which is 10 times as many as last year. Average waits for diagnostic tests are also up. Does the Minister agree with the Royal College of Physicians that those increased waits, including waits for vital tests to diagnose cancer, will harm patient care: yes or no?

[Mr Lansley]

No, we have met the standard that patients should not wait longer than 18 weeks—a 90% standard for admitted patients and 95% for non-admitted patients. If I recall correctly, the latest data for diagnostic tests showed that there was a 1.9 week average wait for diagnostic tests, which compares with 1.8 weeks in May last year. On cancer waiting times we have achieved an improvement—up to 96%—in the number of patients who are seen by a specialist within two weeks. The hon. Lady really needs to go back and talk to her colleagues in Wales, where 26% of patients wait longer than 18 weeks, compared with less than 10% of patients here; indeed, many patients in Wales wait more than 36 weeks. We have a contrast between a coalition Government in England who are investing in the health service, with improving performance, and a Labour Government in Wales who are cutting the NHS budget and seeing performance decline.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 7th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will be aware that in the run-up to the election and since, the Rarer Cancers Forum has mentioned the number of applications to the exceptional cases panels of primary care trusts that have been turned down, and pointed out how often patients in this country have not got access to new cancer medicines that are regularly available to patients in other European countries. That was the basis on which we estimated the level of demand for the cancer drugs fund, and it has actually turned out to be a very good predictor of demand. Patients are now receiving second-line or new medicines for a range of cancers, including prostate and bowel cancer. People with common cancers as well as rarer ones are getting access to new medicines that are increasing their quality of life or life expectancy.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Today the Prime Minister pledged to increase NHS funding, protect universal coverage and keep waiting times low, but his promises are already being broken on cancer care. Three quarters of the cancer drugs fund is not additional money, as the Secretary of State claims, but money taken from other patients, and half as many new cancer drugs are available in some parts of the country as in others. Whatever he claims, can he now confirm that the number of patients waiting more than six weeks for their diagnostic test, including for cancer, has doubled since this time last year?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady seems to have forgotten that we were very clear at the time of the election that we would establish the cancer drugs fund not least on the basis that under this Government, the NHS would not have to pay the additional employer’s national insurance contributions that it otherwise would. The money available for the NHS is being used for the benefit of patients, and it represents additional resources.

I might also remind the hon. Lady that before the election, her party was not committed to protecting the NHS budget. The Leader of the Opposition was completely wrong today when he said that Labour was going to protect NHS spending, as we did. That is not true. Actually, it was committed to only 95% of NHS funding, which was that for the PCTs. It was going to cut the rest, and centrally funded budgets such as the cancer drugs fund are precisely what would have disappeared.

The hon. Lady asked about diagnostic tests. The figures show that a year ago, the average waiting time was 1.7 weeks, whereas the latest figure is 1.8 weeks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Yes, I can confirm that. We are looking for commissioning consortia not only to lead from a primary care perspective on behalf of patients, but to work on commissioning services with their specialist colleagues. Of course, the stroke research network has formed a strong basis upon which such commissioning activity can take place.

There have been many improvements in stroke care. Over the last year, we have seen a significant improvement in performance in relation to responses to transient ischaemic attack, and I hope we continue to see improvements in future.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Last year, the Prime Minister made a very clear pledge to protect front-line NHS services. Will the Secretary of State confirm that in the run-up to next year’s Olympics, which will bring around 1 million extra people to the capital, the London ambulance service is cutting 560 front-line staff? Will the Secretary of State also confirm that nationally, A and E waits of more than four hours are up 65%, that the number of patients waiting more than six weeks for their cancer test has doubled, and that more patients are waiting for longer than 18 weeks than at any time in the last two years? Will he now admit that the Prime Minister’s pledge to protect front-line care is unravelling even faster than the Secretary of State’s chaotic Health and Social Care Bill?

[Mr Speaker]

There were three questions there, but I know that the Secretary of State will provide a characteristically succinct reply.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 8th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

That will be the leak that took place when the head of the Foundation Trust Network gave it to the BBC.

The hon. Lady might not be very experienced in these matters, but she will know that at this time of year, in anticipation of the new financial year, hospitals tell their local primary care trusts how much money they would like to have, but that is not the same as the amount of money available in the whole system. That is part of the contract negotiations. She should also know that the necessity to deliver efficiency savings and redesign clinical services will mean that hospitals need to deliver 4% efficiency gains year on year, right across the NHS.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

It will be 6.5%.

[Mr Lansley]

It will not be 6.5%, because things need to change so that efficiencies can be achieved within hospitals. That much is absolutely clear, and we have been clear about that. It does not threaten the future of hospitals, but incentivises to improve the design of clinical services and improve care for patients, providing more accessible care in the right place and at the right time.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The shadow Secretary of State cannot actually criticise what we put forward in the White Paper or the Bill and is resorting to inventing something else and attacking that. Let me tell him that the one thing we will not do with the private sector is rig the market so that private companies get contracts and guaranteed money whether or not they treat patients. We are not going to give them 11% more money than the NHS would get for doing the same work. We will give NHS organisations a proper chance to deliver services for patients.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Whatever the Secretary of State claims about his reorganisation, a King’s Fund survey showed that more than three quarters of doctors do not believe that it will improve patient care, and even his Department’s impact assessment on the Health and Social Care Bill says that the reorganisation risks distracting staff and making them less focused on patient care.

Will the Health Secretary now confirm that the number of patients waiting more than six weeks for their cancer test has already doubled under this Government, and that routine operations are being cancelled? Will he finally listen to the Royal College of Nursing and the British Medical Association, which have told him that his plans are

“extremely risky and potentially disastrous”

for the NHS and patient care?

Swine Flu

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Monday 10th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I have two points for the right hon. Gentleman. First, all NHS staff, including ambulance staff, are eligible for the vaccine. Regrettably, when I last looked, under 20% had availed themselves of that opportunity. I wish that it were higher.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

“Wish”? Does the Secretary of State think wishing is enough?

[Mr Lansley]

They are all offered it, so they can all be provided with it. I am not in a position to require people to take a vaccine. We are not providing mandatory vaccination in this country yet, and I do not suppose that we shall.

Secondly, I was not admitting that I had done nothing—on the contrary. What the right hon. Gentleman perhaps does not understand is that one cannot simply order additional large-scale supplies of a vaccine. A long process of manufacture is required, as it is an egg-based culture system. The amount is ordered in the spring for autumn delivery, so the amount was determined in the spring. When I entered office in May, there was not any reason particularly to think that we would need more than in other flu seasons, and we knew that we had the back-up of the H1N1 vaccine if we needed it. In early August, I made it clear that I intended to review further the system of procurement, distribution of flu vaccine and its supply. That review is ongoing and will be published shortly.

NHS Reorganisation

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is that we in the coalition Government collectively took the sensible view that form must follow function. If we arrived at a point at which people were being elected to primary care trusts which themselves no longer had a substantive role to play, because public health was rightly being transferred to local authorities—

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Did you know that at the time?

[Mr Lansley]

We did know that at the time. [Interruption.] I will not engage in a conversation with the hon. Lady when she is intervening from a sedentary position. I am replying to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George).

If we arrived at that point—a point at which GP-led commissioning consortiums were rightly leading on the commissioning of health care services—we would then find ourselves suggesting the election of people to a body that did not exercise any substantive responsibilities.

We therefore made a collective decision not to implement the policy in that way. The principle that we were pursuing was the strengthening of local democratic legitimacy in relation to health care—and, for that matter, social care—and that is exactly what we are going to do. We are going to do it through the health and well-being boards, and through the local authorities that are directly responsible for the provision of health improvement plans in their areas, engaging directly with local GP consortiums in the strategic commissioning functions and increasingly integrating health and social care.

Let me return to the point that I was making to the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne. He ought to recognise, but does not seem to understand, that when I was announcing our intentions in 2006, the Government of whom he was a member were saying that these were the reforms that they wished to pursue. Tony Blair made a speech in June 2006 in which he said that NHS reform should be based on patient choice, independent sector providers, general practice-led commissioning and foundation trusts, yet the right hon. Gentleman’s motion today has left all that out. All those things that the Labour Government once supported, he, in opposition, now opposes.

The right hon. Gentleman’s motion is notable for what it has left out: it has left out the call for patient information and choice; it has left out any reference to the need for improving health outcomes; and it has left out a recognition, which the House should always reiterate, of the commitment of health and social care staff to the patients they care for. Particularly tellingly, it has also left out any indication of whether Labour supports or opposes our health service spending plans.

The right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) has left the Chamber, but before the spending review he said to us, “Don’t protect the NHS budget; cut the NHS budget and transfer it to social care.” We did not do that; we did not do what the Labour party suggested. Instead, we have both protected the NHS budget and supported social care.

Before the election, the Labour Administration said, “Cut NHS capital budgets by 50%,” but the real-terms reduction in NHS capital budgets will be just 17%. They said, “Protect the primary care trust budgets but cut central budgets; cut research and development in the NHS; cut education and training,” but we are not doing that. We are protecting the resource funding for the NHS, and it will increase in real terms.

NHS White Paper

Debate between Lord Lansley and Liz Kendall

Monday 12th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I will not go through the White Paper in detail now, but within it he will find that we look towards some GP commissioning consortiums taking an early adopter place from 2011-12, with consortiums generally taking, as it were, a shadow responsibility but not a legal responsibility in 2012-13, and then taking full responsibility, subject to the passage of the legislation to establish that, from April 2013 onwards—the point at which we anticipate that primary care trusts will be abolished.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

The Minister will know that about 80% of patient contact with the NHS is in primary care. Will GP commissioning groups be allowed to commission GP and other primary care services from themselves, and if so, how will they be held to account for that decision?