Prisons: Child Suicides

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Monday 29th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

Would the Minister agree that, no matter how serious the offences committed, or alleged to have been committed, by these young people, they are also often vulnerable young people who are confused and capable of serious self-destruction? Can the Minister expand on his earlier Answer to say what steps are taken to ensure that the assessment of risk is as strong as possible? Is he satisfied that prevention plays a key part in dealing with these young people?

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, first, we are talking about six deaths over 10 years; that is six too many, I readily acknowledge. We also now have an all-time low of young people in custody, for which both Administrations and those working in the youth justice system should take credit; there are fewer than 1,400 in custody, including only a handful of girls. However, the noble Lord is absolutely right that we are dealing with young people who, as well as often having a great capacity for violence against other people and self-harm, are extremely vulnerable and quite often exhibit mentally unstable behaviour. We are bringing in both initial and ongoing assessments to try to make sure that we can identify those who are at risk of either self-harm or, ultimately, of killing themselves. Looking at the briefing on this, an awful lot of hard work and deep study is going on, with the realisation of exactly the problem that the noble Lord highlights: these are vulnerable young people, who are difficult to manage and need a great deal of care and attention.

Crime: Victims

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord McNally)]

My Lords, we are still consulting on this matter and hope to report the outcome of the consultation as soon as possible.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. However, although many of us support the general thrust of the consultation document, especially the point that local services should be shaped to meet the needs of the communities they serve, does the Minister agree that these local services would be more efficient and more effective if they were supported by a strong organisation at the centre that could provide them with advice, help and support? In particular, will Victim Support continue to maintain its services for witnesses and the relatives of victims of homicide?

[Lord McNally]

Part of the purpose of the consultation is to work out where it is best to keep responsibilities centrally—the noble Lord referred to one such responsibility in the case of homicide—and where they could be devolved locally. I assure him that the Government fully appreciate that Victim Support provides a valuable service. We would be surprised if it did not continue to have an important role, as we have proposed moving to a mixed model of national and local commissioning.

Chairman of Committees

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, I rise with some trepidation to welcome the elevation of the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, because the last time I commented in this House on the noble Lord I said that he brought a “superficial academic authority” to his remarks. I make it clear that this was a moment of impulse, instantly regretted, and hope it will not influence my relations with him in his new, elevated position.

I have no problem at all in paying great tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon. I always thought that Brabs brought to his position all the touch and authority of a housemaster at a minor public school—which is exactly what the House of Lords needs in a Chairman of Committees. Noble Lords may get passionate about political issues, but they should see Brabs trying to steer through the introduction of an electronic pass system on the doors, or a new way of going in and out of the car park, or a safe way of crossing from Millbank. This required skill of the highest political order and was always done from the Dispatch Box with the most benign authority. It has been a pleasure to work with him over these years and I am pleased to pay this tribute to his quiet skills, for which the whole House is in his debt.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, on behalf of my colleagues in the Cross-Bench group, I associate myself with the well-deserved tributes to the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon, during 10 years of quite outstanding service as Chairman of Committees. Those who have spoken before me are, of course, much better qualified than I to record his many achievements, but what is beyond doubt is that the noble Lord has been in that role throughout a period of considerable change and some unexpected—and, indeed, some unwelcome—challenges.

Beyond the big events with which noble Lords are familiar, I was struck by the noble Lord’s attention to detail. For example, one morning when I came into the building I saw him attending to the door that leads down to the River Room in such a way that I thought that he might be doing his early morning prayers. I could not resist asking him what he was doing, and he then gave me a detailed account of how the locking mechanism on that door was malfunctioning. That attention to detail has served this House to great benefit, most of all in big projects such as Millbank House, to which reference has already been made. The success of that project was due in no small measure to the noble Lord’s conscientious and careful work. It is his equable temperament and good humour that made him so well qualified to address other taxing challenges of immense importance to the House.

However, there are many other unrecorded issues that deserve mention. Many noble Lords will remember the way in which the noble Lord addressed matters such as mice and moths, and even the origin of the bacon that is served at breakfast in this House. Indeed, your Lordships may recall that at the time of the mice in 2010, a report in the Telegraph referred to the noble Lord in the following terms:

“P G Wodehouse, Pinter, Monty Python—none of them could equal Lord Brabazon of Tara for the dry, incisive, and yet irresistibly comic touch with which, as Chairman of Committees … he responded to questions about this most pressing of national problems”.

There is one other matter which would repay dwelling upon for a moment. In referring to it, I invite noble Lords to imagine the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon, as he was, without a grey hair in his head. Hold that image in your mind—the noble Lord without a grey hair—because that is how he was before the Peers’ car park was landed on his plate.

We are all extremely grateful to the noble Lord for a job well done. We welcome most warmly his successor, the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, and wish him well in this important post.

Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Roper, has made a journey not unlike my own, to which the noble Baroness has just referred. I am still smarting from that stiletto in the ribs delivered some time ago by the noble Lord, Lord Cope. I would only remind him of the story of the young Conservative candidate fighting his first election in one of the Welsh valley seats who started his adoption meeting by saying, “I was a born a Tory, I am a Tory, and I will die a Tory”, and a voice came from the back saying, “Why, man, have you no ambitions?”. Certainly I have no ambitions to join the Conservative Party but I am very pleased to see the noble Lord, Lord Roper, back on our Benches.

I am very proud of the way the noble Lord has carried out the chairmanship of the European Union Committee. I think all sides of the House take pleasure in the reputation that that committee has for its diligence and objectivity in dealing with the issues of Europe, and much of that has been, over the last few years, due to the skill of John Roper. As the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, indicated, that skill comes from a deep and long involvement in European affairs as an academic and a politician, and we have all benefited from it.

As for the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, when the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, e-mailed me to say that he would be asking the noble Lord to take this job, I replied with just one word: “Excellent”, and that is what I think it is—excellent.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, on behalf of the Cross-Bench group, I also welcome the noble Lord, Lord Boswell of Aynho, to this most important post. I also associate myself with the very warm tributes that have been paid to the noble Lord, Lord Roper.

The European credentials of the noble Lord, Lord Roper, run very deep. Visitors to the European Parliament or the Council of Europe, both in Strasbourg, may well have noticed the boulevard du Président Edwards, which runs from the Palais de l’Europe beside the beautiful Orangerie park. Understandably, they may have wondered exactly who was Président Edwards. Many of you will know that he was John Edwards, a Labour MP, who in 1959 became the president of the Assembly of the Council of Europe, and very sadly died in office that same year. John Edwards was the father-in-law of the noble Lord, Lord Roper, so the noble Lord’s credentials could not have been better.

The noble Lord, Lord Roper, has handled with great skill and tenacity a number of matters arising particularly from the Lisbon treaty, and a whole range of matters in the area between the national parliaments and the European Parliament. He has shown great personal qualities and determination. Only last week in Warsaw—and before that, in Copenhagen—he received a very warm welcome from delegates, who recognised not only the contribution he had made but his commitment and enthusiasm for the task.

This House has been extremely well served by the noble Lord, Lord Roper, and we thank him for that most warmly and wish his successor great success.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords—

[Lord McNally]

No, I am not giving way. I am not giving way.

[Noble Lords]

Sit down. You have finished.

[Lord Laming]

The House will realise that I rarely intervene in matters of this kind. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this is the first time that I have intervened. I hope that the noble Lord the Minister, for whom I have the highest regard, will withdraw any suggestion that if members of the Cross-Bench group go through the Lobby supporting these amendments, they are behaving irresponsibly.

[Lord McNally]

Cross-Benchers are individuals who make up their own minds. I am entirely right to say that decisions that we have taken in the context of this Bill relate to public expenditure and the need to bring this economy under control. I will also say this, because we have had enough examples in Europe in the past year: if you lose control of your economy you go into another round of public expenditure cuts. Part of the reason why we have been able to have this debate today is the success of the Government in stabilising the economy.

What we have never heard—and I hope that the Cross-Benchers will also put this into their minds when they make their decision—is that members of the party opposite were committed to making a similar round of public expenditure cuts. That is their right in opposition, but they did not have to spell out where or how or when. That is very comfortable in opposition, but I am proud that we in the Government have taken those decisions. I hope that those who are willing to accept that we have taken tough decisions will give us their support in the Lobby tonight.

Lord Speaker: Baroness Hayman

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Monday 5th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, it is my pleasure to pay tribute from these Benches to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, has already referred to the fact that it was me, from the Benches below the Gangway when she was appointed as Lord Speaker, who referred to her as a cross between the Singing Nun and Mary Poppins. She got hold of me immediately afterwards and with some indignation pointed out that she could not sing and that she was certainly no nun. So I shall take this opportunity to withdraw that comparison. However, I refer noble Lords to the Wikipedia entry on Mary Poppins as portrayed by Julie Andrews. There it says that Mary Poppins is:

“‘Practically perfect in every way’. She is not only firm in her use of authority, but kind and gentle as well”.

I rest my case. There could be no more accurate description of our retiring Lord Speaker.

I echo the tributes paid by the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition, particularly when the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, spoke of her behind-the-scenes skills in managing the House through very difficult times. She has trod with delicacy in establishing the authority of the Lord Speaker inside this Chamber while being sensitive and aware of the way the House wishes to safeguard its self-regulation. As has been mentioned, she pioneered the outreach programme to promote better understanding of our work among young people and the voluntary sector, and she initiated a meeting of the Youth Parliament in this House when the other place hesitated and refused to do so. It has now followed our example. And as the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, said, she has been a first class ambassador for this House abroad and has represented it on major occasions with just the right words and the right sentiments, whether for monarchs, popes or presidents. The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, knows that she has a hard act to follow, but she should also know that she has both our confidence and our affection in setting out on that road.

As for the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, it is never easy to step down from high office and go to the Back Benches. But my prediction is that she will mellow just as the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, has mellowed. In fact, it is my prediction that she will mellow exactly as the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, has mellowed. We wish her well on the Cross Benches.

It is always difficult to sum up a tribute with a single, simple word, but I will try, and I wish Hansard luck with it. I think that the noble Baroness has been supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am so very pleased that my first formal task as Convenor on behalf of the Cross-Bench group is to contribute to the richly deserved tributes being made to our former Lord Speaker. This is a special pleasure for me, not least because I first met the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, when as far back as 1974 she was elected to be my local Member of Parliament. Her election attracted a great deal of attention, first, because she was a woman, and secondly, because she was so young. Such factors were considered to be remarkable, and that of itself is very noteworthy. But for me, then a chief officer in the local authority, from the outset she demonstrated in abundance a much more significant, third feature. That was her evident energy, drive and unyielding commitment, especially to the well-being of the least fortunate and least able of her constituents.

Later, the noble Baroness was to experience the reality of many a political career, which is that of a marked political swing in an area. Once again, it was demonstrated that being a hard-working and enthusiastic representative of the people does not guarantee re-election.

However, when in 1979 the noble Baroness lost her seat in the other place she did not seek a new life in rich pastures. Instead, she decided to build on her earlier career in Camden social services and with the National Council for One Parent Families. This time, she also tackled with vigour a range of very challenging posts in the National Health Service and with local and national charities. So when in 1996 she was appointed to your Lordships’ House, she had accumulated a wealth of experience both in the public services and the voluntary sector. It was, therefore, hardly surprising that very soon she was appointed a Minister in three different departments of government. But, of course, her work in government that many of us remember best was the time she spent in the Department of Health.

As has been noted, in 2006 the noble Baroness became the first Lord Speaker in your Lordships’ House. As has been said so ably, there can be no doubting that, during the past five years, she has fulfilled her responsibilities with great distinction. All of us have had the benefit of her vast experience and personal qualities.

More than that, the noble Baroness has been a great ambassador and a splendid advocate for this House, both nationally and internationally. To highlight just one example, many of us have had the pleasure of contributing to the Peers in Schools programme. No matter how generous the concluding vote of thanks, I suspect that, on leaving a school, most of us have hoped just that the students have gained as much as us from the visit. The Lord Speaker’s lectures and the involvement of young people have added greatly to the standing of this House.

Looking back over the past five years, each of us will have our own special memories of the work of the former Lord Speaker. For my part, I hold dear the occasion when, on behalf of both Houses of Parliament, she thanked President Obama with such warmth, grace and evident sincerity. It was a moving conclusion to a memorable event.

We all look forward to the time when we welcome back the noble Baroness to these Benches. Then, the whole House will once again benefit from her vast experience and great ability. What is for sure is that the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, has our warmest thanks for all she has done for us during her time as Lord Speaker.

I feel sure that our former Lord Speaker would approve of me adding a brief word of welcome to her successor. It goes without saying that we in the Cross-Bench group take particular pleasure in the election of the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza. She must be the first Cross-Bencher to hold this post either in its previous or in its current form. We are delighted. It gives us huge pleasure in her achievement and we wish her great success. However, perhaps I may take the opportunity to reassure the House that trying to step into the footsteps of the noble Baroness once is challenge enough—I have no ambition to try to do it a second time.

Social Mobility Strategy

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge that a number of Sure Start centres are being closed. That being so, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that the centres that remain are made available to the children of families in the greatest need?

[Lord McNally]

That is certainly the Government’s intention. The initiative on Sure Start is still at local authority level but the intention is that it should remain a targeted benefit for those in greatest need, as the noble Lord said.

Justice: Civil Litigation Reform

Debate between Lord Laming and Lord McNally

Tuesday 29th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My noble friend is right that the proposals will be linked in with those for legal aid. The Government have still not made their final decisions on the legal aid package on which they have been consulting, although they have indicated that they want to make cuts on the civil side of legal aid and how they want to make them.

We are trying to reduce the cost of our legal services by reforming court procedures, by introducing mediation, which may avoid the greater costs of court, and by following Jackson and putting some responsibility on claimants for managing legal costs. I had better come clean with my noble friend about how far the proposals extend into the world of tribunals. I shall write to him on that, because I am not quite sure of the answer. I would imagine that they do, but I had better make sure and write to my noble friend.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, and the Minister referred to the rather seductive advertisements that appear very frequently in many places—the Minister gave a vivid illustration of one such advertisement. Is there anything in these proposals that will have an impact on that kind of advertising?

[Lord McNally]

No, not in these proposals, but, as I said earlier, we are waiting for a report on that matter. It must be at least 10 years ago, and perhaps more, that I raised from the Benches opposite the fact that you have only to watch the television any afternoon at home—I know that noble Lords do not often do that—to see those adverts, which make the winning of a case seem akin to winning the lottery. You see a smiling client with a large cheque, having successfully referred their case to some organisation or another, without the general public being aware that the organisation with which they were in contact would not have dealt with their case but farmed it out to a solicitor, thereby only adding to the costs. My right honourable friend the Lord Chancellor is very well aware of this and we await the report. I suspect, knowing him as I do, that he will want to take action on something which irritates and angers a lot of people.

The third question of my noble friend Lord Newton was how many people have recourse to the civil courts. In 2009, some 1,460,000 money claims were issued. I hope that helps my noble friend.