Health and Social Care Bill

Debate between Lord Laming and Baroness Pitkeathley

Wednesday 8th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, may I briefly add my thanks to the Minister and the Constitution Committee? Its second report was particularly helpful. To follow the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, it is right to see Amendment 5 in the context of some coherence over how this accountability will work, not just at ministerial level but at board level. There will be further amendments. At this stage, suffice to say that the Constitution Committee looked at these matters in the broadest possible way to ensure that—whether in terms of autonomy or commissioning—there would be a coherence to the way in which accountability would continue to be established in the National Health Service; and, in particular, that those responsible for commissioning and other important work follow through their tasks in relation to ministerial accountability to Parliament.

The second report of the Constitution Committee was a model of how such matters can be dealt with coherently, succinctly and very clearly. We are indebted to the Minister for giving us the opportunity to consider that more carefully; and to the Committee for its work, which took us forward enormously and has brought us to where we are today. I am grateful and I support the amendment.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

My Lords, far be it from me to cast a pall over the House of Lords at its best. I join others in being glad about the consensus and in congratulating the Constitution Committee. I also congratulate the Convenor on the part that he played in getting the consensus. It is a privilege to follow him.

I join the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, in hoping that the consensus can continue but I have to remind the House of how the Bill is viewed out there. It is deeply unpopular with many of the people who will be required to make it work. They will make it work because that is what the workforce of the health service does and always has done in the most difficult of situations. However, it is looking to us to make those difficulties as few as we possibly can. Therefore, in congratulating ourselves on reaching where we have on this issue, let us remember the task before us.