Child Poverty

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Setting such a strategy and targets can drive action that focuses primarily on moving the incomes for those just in poverty—just above a somewhat arbitrary poverty line—while doing nothing to help those on the very lowest incomes or to improve children’s future prospects. Therefore, we have no plans to reintroduce an approach to tackling child poverty focused primarily on income-based targets. Having said that, perhaps I can reassure the noble Baroness that my Department for Work and Pensions consistently works across government to support the most vulnerable households.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that this figure from the department graphically indicates the importance of the school meal service? Would it be better to go back to a position in which the head teacher, rather than some large external body that is unknown to the school, is responsible for the quality and delivery of the service?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I note that the noble Lord has raised this point in the House in the past, and the Government certainly support the provision of nutritious food in schools. It ensures that pupils develop healthy eating habits and can contribute to concentrating and learning in the classroom. As he will know, we have extended free school meal eligibility several times and to more groups of children than any other Government over the past half a century. We provide free meals for 2 million disadvantaged pupils through the benefits-related criteria.

Carers: Financial Support

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 16th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Again, there is more to be done to highlight the enormous amount of tremendous work that carers do. We are working on this, particularly in tandem with our colleagues in DHSC. I have certainly noted this and will take it forward. If there is something that I can write to my noble friend with, I will do so.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, the whole House will recognise that, at any time, the whole lifestyle of any of us could be changed by a dramatic illness of a close relative. As indicated, the position of unpaid carers is largely not recognised or sometimes ignored, so that, when they are concerned about their relative and get in touch with one of the agencies, they are often disregarded because they are not the patient, and their views are not sought, even though they are providing a huge amount of care. Can the noble Viscount assure us that everything is being done to improve the recognition of unpaid carers’ contribution?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Absolutely, and this ties in with my noble friend’s question. I reassure both the noble Lord and my noble friend that we are improving the recognition, identification and involvement of unpaid carers, particularly in local areas. There are new duties in the Health and Care Act 2022 around involving carers, including in hospital discharge, and new guidance has been prepared for the integrated care strategies, as well as new SCIE guidance for commissioners on breaks for adult carers.

Youth Unemployment

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 15th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

On young people on universal credit receiving help to get work, I say that we do not compartmentalise any age groups. We are doubling the number of work coaches and we have the job finding support service. We have a £150 million support fund that can be used flexibly to meet the needs of people going into work. The support that young people will get will be second to none and we will turn every stone to get them into work. The noble Baroness will know that lots is being said about universal credit at the moment. I will not add to that but it is being looked at all the time to see how we can make life better for people.

[Lord Laming (CB) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister recall a saying that I often heard in my youth: “Idle hands make light work for the devil”? We all know that the years between the ages of 16 and 24 are a period of a transition—but, for many, a transition to what? Services for this age group have been severely cut. We worry about their mental health, drug abuse, county lines and knife crime but, if we do not put in place a robust and effective range of services, these young people are in danger of being left behind. Do the Government have in place an action plan for these young people?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The Government have an action plan that we are putting into action. It is our Plan for Jobs, which is grossed up into a £30 billion fund. I have already mentioned some of things that we are doing with that money; I do not want to repeat them. I take the point about the devil making work for idle hands, I really do, but what is different here is that young people will get a work coach—a personal coach—who will stick with them. We will do everything we can to make sure that young people transfer into work, achieve their destiny and do not fall into activity that we do not want to see them involved in.

Disability Employment Gap

Lord Laming Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, in following up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, about information for employers, does the Minister agree that often we are not asking for something profound or difficult? It is just tackling basic information about the subject. We could do a great deal with very little effort.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I could not agree more with the noble Lord. I was on a project recently where a young girl with bags of potential who had epilepsy thought she would never get a job because she thought that nobody would risk having her in their establishment. The people running the project found a lady who ran a business and who was epileptic. She said, “You send her down to me.” She is now employed as a legal secretary. That did not take a great deal of effort. The way for us to make headway with those statistics is by remembering that everybody is an individual and by spending time working out a strategy for the individual.

Policy-making: Future Generations

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 1st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bird]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the interests of future generations are taken into account at every level of government policy-making and, if so, how.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

In the absence of my noble friend Lord Bird, who cannot be here, I ask the Question in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, accounting for the interests of future generations is a core consideration within the Government’s policy-making. The Government require that all programmes, projects and policies demonstrate the costs, benefits and risks associated with the intervention over its whole lifetime, in line with the government Green Book. This includes the impact on future generations. Where the possible effects of an intervention being examined as part of an appraisal are long term and involve very substantial or irreversible wealth transfers between generations, The Green Book sets out the analysis that is required to estimate the long-term impact of the intervention.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister, who has vast experience in this area. But I ask whether the Government recognise that the budgetary cuts year on year on year have resulted in a marked reduction in family support and preventive services, especially for young people. Does she accept that there is a great deal of catching up to be done, which must involve the contribution of every government department, as is happening in Wales? How will the Government ensure that every department plays a part in this?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I would be foolish to say that we have not got some catching up to do, but I assure all noble Lords that we wish to work hard to achieve this. In terms of cross-government working, I have been in the department only a short while, and I have met with people in other government departments to talk about things that we can do together to make the impact better. The principle is well understood, and I assure all noble Lords that we are completely committed to making sure that the resources we have are deployed well for the benefit of all generations.

Employment and Support Allowance

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 19th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, no, somebody in the department may have said something but, as far as I am concerned, I am proud to work for the Department for Work and Pensions.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure that most of the House accepts what the Minister says: the department is working extremely hard and trying very hard to get these things right. I do not think that is in doubt, but is it not also the case that each of these underpayments affects the quality of life of a very vulnerable person? Sometimes that degree of distress undermines their quality of life. Can the Minister continue to do all she can to ensure we all recognise that at the end of this process is somebody who will be much damaged by underpayments of this kind?

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his question, which gives me an opportunity to say that my honourable friend in another place, the Minister of State for Disabled People, Health and Work, is working tirelessly not only to do the job but to do so in an exemplary fashion. She absolutely understands that each individual life is affected when we get it wrong—where there is a mistake. As she said in another place only an hour ago, one mistake is one too many. But the reality is that we are working hard and we have wonderful staff who are very proud of what they do.

I am a little afraid of saying this in case it is misunderstood but, on underpayments, I should be clear that no one suffered a cash loss. We did not take any money away. That does not excuse the mistake that was made. The reality is that we needed to ensure that underpayments from the transfer were corrected as quickly as possible, and we continue to do so.

Human Trafficking

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, we have signed up to the European directive on human trafficking and will be fully compliant by next month. We attach such importance to this issue that we wanted to ensure that the work that we are doing to co-operate across all boundaries was properly reflected by our subscription to that EU directive. There is no suggestion that we would want to do anything to weaken our commitment in that area.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, the whole House will agree that people who traffic those children are usually not only heartless but extremely determined and controlling. Does the Minister agree that those who are in the forefront of trying to identify and protect these children need to be even more determined than those who are trafficking them? Can we be assured that examples such as the one referred to will be made more general across the country and that the legislation will be reviewed more thoroughly?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that our priority has to be about raising awareness of this crime and ensuring that those who are at the front line in a range of different agencies can spot where somebody is being trafficked as, sadly, this is a crime where victims sometimes do not know they are victims. That links to a Question I answered some months ago about child sexual exploitation and the victims of that crime not necessarily knowing that they are being abused in the way that they are. We are investing money in making sure that the professionals at the front line are improving all the time in identifying them. Evidence of that is the fact that more people are being referred to the NRM than have been up to now.

Equal Marriage Consultation

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating this measured and very welcome Statement. I hope that she will understand that many of us in this House were brought up to believe that all people are equal in the sight of God, and that some of us are deeply saddened that some churches have given up their responsibility of being at the forefront in promoting equal opportunity.

That being so, I ask the noble Baroness—somewhat unusually for me—to convey to the Government my personal thanks for the thoughtful and sensitive way in which they are dealing with this matter, especially in providing the churches that want them with a remarkable range of safeguards, while the rest of us can go on enjoying and celebrating love and lifelong commitment among adults who love and care for each other.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his support and also for his comments about the way in which we are bringing forward these proposals. I hope that he will forgive me if I do not seek to respond on behalf of the right reverend Prelates in the House today and I am sure that he would not expect me to.

Crime: Violence Against Women and Girls

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Any mandate that the police and crime commissioners achieve will be stronger than the mandate that currently does not exist for the invisible police authorities.

[Lord Laming]

Will the Minister assure the House that when these changes take place, every encouragement will be given to chief constables to ensure that when they come across homes in which there is domestic violence and that have young children in them, steps will also be taken to refer those matters to social services to make sure that those children are protected from this behaviour?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Yes, my Lords. One of the advantages of the new regime of PCCs and devolving decisions on policing priorities in this way is that it will, I hope, lead to greater co-ordination between local agencies. Particularly with regard to children, it is worth reminding noble Lords that the noble Lord, Lord Laming, was successful in introducing an amendment to the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill to ensure that police and crime commissioners hold the chief constable to account for safeguarding children and the promotion of children’s welfare.

Welfare Reform Bill

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 14th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Tyler]

My Lords, I have a genuine respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon, but I am bemused by the position she seems to have adopted. I hoped she was going to clarify her position this afternoon. I read with concern the report of her views in the Guardian last Wednesday, which stated:

“She attacked the way in which the government was trying to neuter debate on current controversial bills such as the welfare bill by claiming financial privilege, a means by which the Commons can order the Lords not to pursue an amendment because it has financial implications beyond Lords' powers”.

From what the noble Baroness has just said, I think she may regret having stated that. Perhaps she has been wrongly reported. I thought there was a common view about the use of the financial privilege circumstances—when the Commons can assert its privileges. I have experienced both ends of the House. I thought we knew where we were. There were many occasions, for example in the last Parliament, when much more minor issues came up that had financial implications and she, when she was on this side of the House, and her noble friends, defended the right of the Commons to assert its financial privilege on much smaller sums of money than we are considering this afternoon.

As we were told, the 11 amendments under consideration on which the Commons has asserted its privileges cost in total something in the region of £2 billion. I draw the attention of the noble Baroness in particular to an occasion on 24 November 2008 when she and her noble friend Lord West of Spithead, who has left his place, defended the use of the financial privilege assertion by the Commons. She stated:

“Having said that, I realise that the reason given for privilege is precisely because it is a financial privilege. I hear what the noble Lord says, but I am informed that we are acting in accordance with the proper procedures”.—[Official Report, 24/11/08; col. 1294.]

The matter concerned a very small sum of money to be spent on DNA procedures under the Counter-Terrorism Act—far smaller in significance than the amendments that we are considering today. Therefore, I am bemused. I do not understand what the noble Baroness’s position is now. Is she trying to change the commonly accepted meaning of financial privilege, or is she going back on what she said to the Guardian last week? I hope she will clarify her position because it will do the House, and indeed her position in it, no good if we adopt an apparently selective procedure concerning financial privilege.

This afternoon is probably not the occasion to debate this in detail. However, I am very disappointed that the noble Baroness did not re-establish the point that she made when she was on this side of the House. There are long-standing conventions, nothing has changed and the very small number of amendments that have received this treatment from the Commons is in direct contrast to the many occasions when she asserted that privilege when she was in government.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I do not wish to get caught up in a cross-party dispute on these matters, which are very serious indeed. I am extremely grateful to the Leader of the House for his very helpful statement. I will also associate myself with the point that he made about the noble Lord, Lord Freud, who has been assiduous throughout the Bill in the way in which he has listened and responded to the concerns of the House.

The House has a proud record of scrutinising legislation and, if I may say so, improving it. However, in the circumstances in which we find ourselves, I will make a request to the Leader. Sometimes when amendments go to another place there is a temptation for the House to be portrayed as troublesome. I hope that in these special circumstances the Leader of the House will assure noble Lords that what has happened on the Bill is part of normal business between two Houses, and that we will continue to conduct business in this proper way to secure the best possible legislation.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud)]

My Lords, before I go into this Motion, I would like to pick up some of the points raised by my noble friend the Leader of the House about how what we are considering today is impacted by the ping-pong process that we are going into. The question asked by my noble friend—

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am sorry. This is a really important statement that we are all terribly keen to hear but are unable to do so amid all this noise. Perhaps it is my position in the Chamber, but I wonder if the noble Lord could start again.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I apologise, I was keen not to waste time. I want to pick up on the comment made by my noble friend: why would we bother with all this? I am considering all the work that has been done on this Bill, and as I look around noble Lords I can see that the most astonishing amount of energy has been put into this Bill through its Committee and Report stages; I am the first to register that. I want to assure noble Lords that the debates we have had have been heard, that I have represented the points made with great vigour in government, and that I have seen a lot of changes in this Bill as a direct result of that work. I shall name a few of those changes because it is easy to forget what we have done with this Bill.

On ESA time-limiting, we accepted the need to make amendments to protect those with degenerative conditions. On the benefit cap, we have put in a nine-month grace period and exempted those in the support group of ESA, again in response to debates in this House. On PIP, we have made a number of changes to the required-period condition and have restored the mobility component for those in residential homes. Within universal credit, we have put in £300 million a year to afford additional childcare. That all added up in this spending review period to £638 million. Looked at as an ongoing cost when universal credit is introduced, it amounts to an extra £518 million per annum in a steady state. Each of those concessions was made as a direct result of the debates that we had in this House. I think, bluntly, there was a point at which the Government decided they could not afford any more. The cost of the amendments that we sent through would have been £2.1 billion in this spending review period and another place decided that that was more than could be afforded. I think that we reached the limit and the way to interpret what has come back from another place is that we cannot afford any more. Despite that, I want noble Lords to know that I am going on listening today and I hope that there will be several areas where I can move things along in a way that is helpful to the mood and views of many Peers.

I turn to the Motion. Noble Lords will remember that this is about having just two rates in universal credit for disabled children which align with adult rates. Our objective is to distribute resources fairly and simplify the current systems of support. The idea is to target the money on need and not on age, because of the problem of when people move from the child system to the adult system.

We are absolutely committed to supporting disabled people, to improving their quality of life and to tackling poverty at its root. We need to assess how to invest scarce resources in the most effective way. It is clear that this has been a matter of great concern to noble Lords. I have been exploring that concern and trying to get to its root. The concern lies in whether we are channelling the money to the right children. At the moment, children are passported from DLA and the question is whether we have the right definitions. I understand that concern and am taking steps, subject to your Lordships’ response, to do something about it.

If we are going to have a system of alignment between children and adults, and make sure that that works effectively and that we minimise disruption, then we have to be certain that the categorisations are consistent through that age gap. This is not an easy thing to do, because at the moment the definitions in these areas are linked to DLA for children. We need to be careful not to pre-empt any decisions on the future applicability of that, because we may be looking to change from DLA for children to PIP for children. We need to spend a considerable time to get that move—if it happens—right. Children are different from adults and have different needs from them at different times in their lives. Just as for adults, we need to have a system that is fair and consistent for children.

We need to learn from the introduction of PIP for those aged 16 to 64, which will start in April 2013 and continue through to 2016 as people switch over. We need to build learning from that process. We are also looking at moving towards a single assessment process for children’s social care, health and special education needs. By the start of 2015, we should have gathered sufficient evidence to be able to consider our future approach.

On the basis of that timing and on the basis that the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, withdraws her new amendment, I am therefore happy to give a commitment to the House that, by the end of 2015, we will review the current definitions, working carefully through the issues with disabled people and disability organisations, so that we have a gateway in place that ensures that the most severely disabled children get the right support.

Before noble Lords say that 2015 is a long way away, I point out that it is not quite as far as it seems. Universal credit will start to roll out in October 2013, and we will migrate claimants into it slowly over the next four years. In practice, people with disabled children are likely to be towards the end of that migration queue anyway. In addition, we have transitional protection for the existing groups. In practice, the timings would mesh quite elegantly. It would mean that the commitment is there to either look at it in the context of a move to child PIP or to have a proper look at it anyway within the context of DLA.

I hope I have been able to demonstrate to the House that we are taking this issue very seriously. It is an important issue that has been raised, and it is one we have thought about very deeply, in order to get this process right. I therefore urge the House not to insist on Amendment 1. I beg to move.

Motion A1 (as an amendment to Motion A)