Welfare of Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (England) Regulations 2012

Debate between Lord Kirkhill and Lord Gilbert

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Kirkhill]

I fully accept that definitive assessment.

My view is that Defra has been playing around with this for many a long day without real purpose. It is clear that primary legislation is required to ban the use of wild animals in circuses. What we are told—and one has to accept it because it is obvious—is that primary legislation takes some time to create.

Nevertheless, while one can concede—and I do—that these regulations are an improvement on the existing situation, we have to remember that the whole concept of the circus is built on cruelty. It is built on prodding and whipping the animals. It is built on the fact that poor-quality staff are employed; and behind the scenes cruel practice exists in training. Although the committee of experts suggested that the animals were not at hazard, were well fed, watered and so on, nevertheless they are cribbed, cabined and confined. They have to travel around and they are much restricted. You only have to see behind the scenes, as I have done over the years, a trainer raising a whip and an animal immediately or very often subsiding. It is clear that much cruelty is involved.

[Lord Gilbert]

I apologise, but my name is up on the Annunciator and it is not me speaking. I would hate for my noble friend to be mistaken for me. That would be quite unfair.

[Lord Kirkhill]

My goodness me. Given my noble friend’s advanced age, he gets up on his feet rather more quickly than I do. I must admit that the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, stopped me in the Corridor the other day and said, “Lord Gilbert, that is a splendid contribution you have just made”. After all, I am a good-looking chap and my noble friend is just Lord Gilbert. You have to take that into account.

At any rate, I do not wish to say more. I have expressed my views. These regulations are marginally better, but my true condemnation is of Defra. I honestly believe that it has dragged its feet on this issue for years.