Teesworks Programme: Audit
Debate between Lord Khan of Burnley and Lord Shipley(4 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for raising those important issues. It is true that the previous Government scrapped the Audit Commission and replaced it with a fragmented, locally led audit regime that is failing. This Government are committed to overhauling local audit and restoring better value for money for taxpayers. We are looking closely at all the evidence, and we will set out our plans, including legislation, shortly. I must remind the House that until we get the response of the Mayor of Tees Valley we cannot explore the options. We will wait for the response to the 26 recommendations which the mayor was asked to look at and then take further action.
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, the Minister said that scrutiny is important and has committed the Government to undertaking further action when the mayor’s response has been received. What is the Minister’s expectation of the timescale? The mayor will respond quite soon, as I understand it, and the Government then have to say what they want to do. Can the Minister tell us how long that might be? Will he take into consideration the fact that the Tees Valley Combined Authority plans to have only five meetings of its cabinet in the period from September this year to the end of June 2025?
Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)
I cannot comment on the meeting schedule of the Tees Valley Combined Authority. That is something for it to look at. In relation to the timeline, I have said to the House in previous answers that until six months have passed and the mayor has had an opportunity to address the concerns in relation to the 26 recommendations, we cannot work on this further. In the meantime, we recognise the point made by my noble friend that local audit needs transformative change, and noble Lords will very shortly hear the plans for changing the way local in which audit takes place.
Combined Authorities (Overview and Scrutiny Committees, Access to Information and Audit Committees) (Amendment) Regulations 2024
Debate between Lord Khan of Burnley and Lord Shipley(8 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, I will wait for the Minister to reply to the points raised by my noble friend Lord Scriven. In her introduction, she talked about the review that is taking place but not the timescale. It would help the House to know when the Government expect the response, which we all expect, to be produced.
I understand that this instrument maintains parity between combined authorities and combined county authorities and that it is necessary. However, I was concerned to read in paragraph 7.4 of the Explanatory Notes that
“several of the combined authorities with whom the draft legislation was discussed asked if provision could be included enabling committees to meet virtually or to reduce the quoracy requirement for the transaction of committee business from its current level of two thirds of committee members”.
I am very pleased that the Government concluded
“that face-to-face attendance of meetings”
of overview and scrutiny, and of audit, is important. It is and, having worked on the levelling-up Bill and moved amendments in relation to overview and scrutiny, and audit, I think that the Government’s position is correct.
It is very easy for those who are running overview and scrutiny, and audit, to want to reduce the workload and so suggest “Can we meet virtually?”—that means that, rather than all the conversations that take place before or after a meeting, people are only discussing these matters online—and, “Can committees have a lower turnout/attendance rate?” When we moved these matters in previous legislation, the figure of two-thirds mattered because overview and scrutiny, and audit, must be taken very seriously. I hope that the Government understand this.
We will see when we get the report that the Government are due to present to your Lordships’ House, but, as my noble friend Lord Scriven said, my eyes lit upon the words at paragraph 10.1 of the Explanatory Notes saying that:
“The Government has no plans actively to monitor this legislation”.
I think that this means relating only to whether people take up the option of allowances—it may mean that; however, it may mean something else. I hope that the Government do not mean the wider definition of “legislation”, because all the evidence suggests that the Government need to keep a very close eye on overview and scrutiny and audit, and how it is being carried out.
Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations. It is a pleasure to follow the noble Lords, Lord Scriven and Lord Shipley, who have asked some very important questions.
The Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 provides for the establishment of combined county authorities, which typically cover more rural areas; the existing combined authorities typically cover cities. The purpose of these regulation is to ensure that the same membership and proceedings provisions apply to the overview and scrutiny committees and audit committees of combined county authorities as apply to the same committees in combined authorities.
The regulations aim to create uniformity across both types of local authority in terms of committees that scrutinise the spending of public money and enable their members to be paid. We on these Benches would like to raise some specific issues. The measures mirror powers given to local authorities and the current combined authorities. We must be careful that we do not create legislation that allows combined authorities to create overview and scrutiny functions and audit functions if they do not have the specialist teams that are needed to support them properly.
This is a point my honourable friend Jim McMahon MP raised in the other place; he had no satisfactory response. We all know that when local government excels in scrutiny, it is because it has a well-resourced team that enables it to do proper, deep-dive reviews and investigations, to call in expert witnesses and to really go through things. I do not see that provision of finance in these regulations, so I would welcome a response on that.
Will overview and scrutiny committees have the power to conduct a “best value” review? Will remuneration for members of the committees reflect the type of members the committees want to attract? For instance, getting a specialised accountancy perspective may cost more than getting a residential view; will remuneration for each be the same or different? Have overview and scrutiny committees been reviewed yet? How effective have they been so far at ensuring that there are checks and balances in place on local authority spending? Who will pay for the provisions of these regulations? Will the cost come out of already-stretched local authority budgets?
Representation of the People (Postal Vote Handling and Secrecy) (Amendment) Regulations 2023
Debate between Lord Khan of Burnley and Lord Shipley
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, I shall add one further issue that concerns me, partly from what the Minister said in his introduction and partly from my reading of the instrument. It relates to the definition of “political campaigner”. This appears several times in the statutory instrument. Is a person who is a friend of an independent candidate a political campaigner? The regulations permit an individual to hand in up to five postal votes of other voters at a polling station, but a political campaigner cannot handle a postal vote. Therefore, the definition of a “political campaigner” matters. Does it include a friend of a candidate who is independent of any political party? Is that person a political campaigner?
Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)
My Lords, it is pleasure to hear from noble Lords, in particular the noble Lords, Lord Scriven and Lord Hayward. I felt a bit nostalgic at the “Back to the Future” moment, when the report by the noble Lord, Lord Pickles, from 2026 was announced. I thought that there might have been an election and a new Government, with the noble Lord promoted to look at elections.
Like other noble Lords, we on these Benches also support the intention to reduce voter fraud. I thank the Minister for introducing the SI. I will raise an important point for noble Lords to consider. From my understanding, the Government have not consulted relevant stakeholders on this issue. I assume that there would have been some consultation to bring the regulations forward, but the Association of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers—ALACE—has not been consulted. That concerns me, and must concern other noble Lords.
Since, from my understanding, the Government have not consulted ALACE, I will pick up on its points of concern and help the Minister on some of them. I do not want to repeat noble Lords’ points, but ALACE is concerned that the regulations will create more work for polling station staff. If significant numbers of postal votes are handed in on polling day, this might cause unnecessary delays for other electors, particularly at a general election. What does the Minister think about that concern?
What are the Government’s thoughts on the imposition of new duties and responsibilities on polling station staff, and on reception staff at council offices, who will have to decide whether to reject postal votes? What about the unnecessary disfranchisement of some electors, who will have completed postal voting packs correctly, including by providing their signature and date of birth on the postal vote, but which also have to be returned with the ballot paper?
The Opposition have a number on questions. What will happen to those who are already registered as a proxy voter for more than four electors or more than two domestically residing electors? Is the relationship between proxy and elector not important in preventing coercive proxy voting? Will there be special circumstances by which a proxy can act as such for more than four electors, should they be family members who are unable to vote themselves and the chosen proxy is the only trustworthy option for them?
Postal voting is an important means to ensure elderly people with mobility or financial issues are not prevented from exercising their democratic right to vote. Given that the elderly are more likely to face problems navigating a digital application compared with the more familiar written form, is there a concern that the move to digital applications may act as a hindrance to ensuring that the elderly can vote? What is the Government’s assessment of the number of proxy voters abusing this system to coerce others and steal their vote, compared with the number of proxy voters who need to use the system and do so fairly? With voter turnout at a relative low compared with the previous century, what is the Government’s assessment of the impact that additional requirements to vote will have on voter turnout?
Finally, the introduction of photo ID has resulted in clear evidence that some electors have been denied a vote as a consequence. Does the Minister recognise this in relation to these regulations? How will the Government ensure the regulations do not compound that situation? I look forward to his response.