Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Kerslake and Lord Warner
Lord Kerslake (CB)
My Lords, I declare my interest as president of the Local Government Association.
Noble Lords will know from my maiden speech my passionate commitment to devolution and support for this Bill. It is because I support devolution that I think we should support Amendments 1 and 2 today. An annual report and a devolution statement seem to me to be entirely practical and sensible additions that will further devolution, not hinder it.
The exam question before us is: why, given that all three of the main political parties have supported devolution for as long as I can remember, has progress been so slow and uncertain? Here are four quick reasons. The first is the silo nature of central government. Departments think “police, health”, but they never think place. Secondly, devolution is inherently disruptive. I recall a senior official saying to me that he was very supportive of the city and local government deals provided they did not get in the way of delivering his current programmes. I did say that that was the entire point. Thirdly, there is a dislike of difference in this country, and devolution is different in different places. Fourthly, there is often nervousness at local level, particularly in voluntary and community organisations, that this will be a cosy deal between central and local government that will leave them on the sidelines.
What is proposed here is a powerful antidote to those very powerful pressures and is designed to keep the Government to their intent as set out in the Bill. If agreed, these amendments will advocate and ensure transparency and reduce the risk of one step forwards, two steps backwards, which has bedevilled the devolution debate. Indeed, the Secretary of State, Greg Clark, produced something very similar to annual reports on progress in departments in the previous Government. We should support both amendments as practical and sensible moves that will keep the Government to their intent and advance the cause of devolution.
Lord Warner (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, support these amendments and very much echo the points made by the noble Lord in his last remarks. There is a silo mentality in Whitehall and it often works rather badly against what is best for place. These amendments will, in my view, help the Government progress the objectives of the Bill. I know that we are going to have a debate on Wednesday on some NHS issues around this, but Amendment 1 will help with the laggards and those who are uncertain where the health functions make sense in this legislation. It would be good to know, across the country, when particular services have been led into a devolved state and when they have not. We need to be able to capture on a regular basis the progress in this area across the range of functions it may be possible to devolve. I fully support these amendments and hope that the Government will as well.