Flags (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Debate between Lord Kennedy of Southwark and Lord Caine

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Caine, has outlined the purpose of the regulations before us today, and, like other noble Lords, I am content to approve the regulations. As we have heard, the union flag will be flown on designated days on government and other buildings, and I very much support the proposal that the flying of the union flag in Northern Ireland should be brought into line with that in the rest of the United Kingdom.

My noble friend Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick rightly set out that flags and emblems are a sensitive issue in Northern Ireland, and respect for difference is so important. I was born in London, as your Lordships can probably tell, and the union flag is the flag of the country I love; my parents were born in the Republic of Ireland, and that is the flag of my ancestors, and I very much love Ireland as well. So I think those things go together.

As the noble Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, explained, sadly, these regulations are necessary since His Royal Highness passed away. I join with the noble Lord in his warm tribute to His Royal Highness Prince Philip on his work and public service throughout his life to our great country, and I join the noble Lord in his warm tribute to Her Majesty the Queen on the work that she has given to our nation. I join with the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, in looking forward to the day that we celebrate Her Majesty’s accession to the Throne, as that will be a great day for our nation.

I very much support the regulations and look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have participated in this short debate, in which we have, as anticipated, exceeded by some way the consideration and scrutiny provided in the other place. Rather than making a lengthy closing speech, I shall just pick up one or two of the comments that have been made by noble Lords.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, in a typically thoughtful and constructive speech, made the point that Northern Ireland is a divided society and we have to respect both traditions. I completely agree with her and believe that the flag-flying regulations indeed conform to the letter and spirit of the commitments in the Belfast agreement, which states that:

“All participants acknowledge the sensitivity of the use of symbols and emblems for public purposes, and the need … to ensure that”


they are used

“in a manner which promotes mutual respect rather than division.”

I completely agree with that.

However, the flying of the union flag of course reflects the constitutional position of Northern Ireland as determined by the principle of consent in the Belfast agreement. It is worth noting that in 2019 the Northern Ireland Court of Appeal ruled that the regulations

“should be regarded as a pragmatic reflection of the current reality of the constitutional position and actively consented to in accordance with the spirit of the Agreement that Irish people, North and South, signed up to.”

So the regulations are consistent with the Belfast agreement and with respect for both main traditions in Northern Ireland, reflecting, as I say, the constitutional position.

The noble Baroness referred to the flags commission established by the Stormont House agreement, which I remember all too well as part of the UK Government negotiating team during those 11 weeks of somewhat tortuous talks. As the noble Baroness will be aware, part of the delay in publication of the flags commission report was down to the fact that there was no Executive between 2017 and 2020, which delayed matters somewhat.

I am very happy to look into the points that the noble Baroness made regarding implementation, conscious of the fact that when we discussed this in the strand one discussions at Stormont House those seven-plus years ago, it was always understood by all participants that the flags commission was a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive, not Her Majesty’s Government. I think I am right in saying that, when the commission finally reported last December, it had no recommendations to make in areas that are covered by the regulations before your Lordships today. However, I will look at the point she makes regarding discussions with the Executive over how this is taken forward.

The noble Lord, Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, referred to the work of the Duke of Edinburgh over many years, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Harris of Richmond, whom I welcome to the Committee today—I am particularly pleased that she is speaking from the North Riding of God’s own county. I endorse everything that both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness said about the Duke of Edinburgh over many decades—his tremendous record of service and duty to our nation—and I completely concur with the noble Lord, Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, in his sentiments about Her Majesty’s the Queen, which I totally endorse. Long may she reign.

My noble friend Lord Hannan started off by referring to what might be regarded as an ideal world and then quickly qualified himself to make it clear that we were some distance from an ideal world when it came to the flying of flags in Northern Ireland.

My noble friend Lady Foster referred to the European Union emblem, as I think she called it. I think both my noble friends will be pleased to know that the requirements for flying the European Union emblem or flag—however you wish to describe it—on Europe Day was removed by the last update of these regulations.

In reply to my noble friend Lord Lexden, if anybody in the Committee could be allowed to speak up on some of the wording of the Explanatory Memorandum it is my noble friend, and I say that having had my work as a very young researcher in the Conservative research department edited by my noble friend over a long time. If my writing style has certainly improved over the years, my noble friend has played a huge role in that.

My noble friend referred to a particular point in the memorandum. The text of the regulations as amended means that flags are not flown for members of the Royal Family who have died. That should be fairly straightforward and clear, but if the Explanatory Memorandum is a little confusing, I will certainly take that point away.