Assisted Suicide

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Low of Dalston

Thursday 14th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We are of course conscious of the difficulties and challenges facing people in the situation that the noble Lord has outlined, but I emphasise again that it is for the CPS to apply the law, not to make the law. In doing so, it follows a policy that addresses not only an evidential test but a public interest test with regard to such cases. The consequence is that, of the 140-odd cases referred in the last nine years to the CPS, there were prosecutions in respect of Section 2 of the Suicide Act 1961 in only four of them, resulting in one acquittal and three convictions.

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord has implied, the police are only enforcing the law, so it is really the law that is the problem rather than the police. When will the Government bring in a new law to free the police from having to treat loving families like criminals?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, it is not a case of having to treat loving families like criminals. It is a matter of having to look at the facts and circumstances of every case, in situations where the victim may be extremely vulnerable. As the Government have said before, it is therefore a matter for Parliament because it is a matter of conscience. It is not a matter for government to bring forward such legislation. The noble Lord will be aware that such legislation was proposed in 2015 and did not succeed.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Low of Dalston

Thursday 7th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to early advice in the area of social welfare law. He will understand my interest in this area, given the review of advice and legal support in the area of social welfare law that I chaired. Could he tell us more about what is envisaged from the pilots in this area and perhaps say something about the Government’s thinking about public support for sustainable advice services generally?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord. Looking more generally at advice and assistance, we want and propose to look at how we can engage with people at a very early stage, so that we can evaluate their legal problems—and, indeed, sometimes problems that are not entirely legal but that lead on to legal issues if not addressed quickly enough.

In the specific area of social welfare law, we will seek pilots that evaluate various technological solutions and look at the cost benefits of trying to approach matters in that way. I mentioned earlier the idea of web-based material and the development we have seen in digital access to legal advice. For example, we have already instituted such digital access in the areas of uncontested divorce and debt, so that people can, without the need for legal advice, be guided through what should be a relatively straightforward process for the resolution of certain legal issues.

Data Protection Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Low of Dalston

Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Low of Dalston]

Would the Minister perhaps agree that it would be highly advantageous to the Government—it would be in the Government’s interest—for the response to the consultation to be published before Report? If it is, its contents might well incline those of us who support these amendments to think again about them, whereas if we do not have the benefit of the Government’s response, we may be obliged to carry amendments that the Government would not wish to be carried.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I quite understand the force of the noble Lord’s observations. Nevertheless, I am not in a position to say that the response will be available for publication before Report. I am afraid that we have to proceed on that basis. It may have consequences such as those set out by the noble Lord, and we will have to address those in due course. I am afraid that I cannot go further on this point.

Finally, I come to some of the observations of the noble Lord, Lord McNally, who spoke to his Amendments 185E and 185F. I begin by saying that I have no wish to disappoint either the gentleman on the Clapham omnibus or the noble Lord himself. Therefore, I will endeavour to address the questions that he raised as fully as I can. I take account of his commendable intention to peruse Hansard over breakfast and to come to a view as to whether or not I have fully responded to his points.

Amendments 185E and 185F seek to make the unlawful obtaining of personal data a criminal offence with a custodial sentence of up to two years under Clause 175. Of course we recognise the seriousness of any offence that is committed in this context. That is why it is important that proper thought is given to the introduction of any changes which would seek to put in place custodial penalties that could remove people’s liberty. Under the coalition Government, in March 2011, the noble Lord, Lord McNally, said that the Government would not commence prison sentences for Section 55 offences but would continue to keep the matter under review. At that time Ministers agreed to pursue non-custodial options, instead of a custodial option, including encouraging the use of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and making the offences recordable. Indeed, it is this Government’s intention in this Bill that the offences should now be made recordable. That is addressed in Clause 178.

Again, this is one of those complex areas where we have to achieve a balance between competing rights and obligations. We believe that, for the reasons I sought to set out earlier, we are achieving the right balance with the provisions in the Bill. I hope that the noble Lord will feel open to not moving his amendment.