Prisons

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Thursday 8th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the size of the prison population and conditions within prisons.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, on Friday 2 February the prison population in England and Wales was 84,511. Work is under way to modernise the prison estate, closing some of the older prisons and creating in their place high-quality rehabilitative establishments.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, 75 of the 119 prisons in England and Wales have populations in excess of the certified normal accommodation standard. The latest figures show a 12% rise in both assaults and self-injury in prisons. The chief executive of the Howard League tells me that, in 30 years in the sector, she has never known conditions to be so bad. When is this Brexit-paralysed Government going to treat prisons and prison reform as a national priority? How bad does it have to get? Will the noble Earl tell us when he last visited a prison to see conditions for himself?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The conferment of a hereditary title is welcomed. Mrs Keen will be very pleased.

This is of course a serious issue. The demands on our prisons are a long-term issue, not a short-term problem, and we intend to address it with a programme of new prisons. Perhaps I may say that the question of capacity in our prisons has been with us for well over 15 years: indeed, we are not quite at the same sort of ceiling of use as we were even 10 years ago. As regards crowding levels, I regret to say that, since 2004, they have remained persistently at about the same level on a measure in percentage terms of between 24% and 25%—but, as I say, we are seeking to address these issues with our programme of new establishments.

Prisons: Action Plans and Special Measures

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. The matter of IPP prisoners is under consideration by the Ministry at the present time. It has of course been highlighted by the recent case of Worboys, which should not be seen, I would suggest, as an indication that we have dropped this matter. We are concerned with the issue of IPP prisoners.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, all parliamentarians should be sent a copy of the chief inspector’s devastating report on HM Prison Liverpool, showing that half the prisoners were locked in cells during the working day and 37% were drug-positive. The prison had hundreds of broken windows, with cockroach infestation and piles of rubbish, and over 2,000 maintenance tasks were outstanding. How many local, regional and national managers have been dismissed following this shocking indictment?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the conditions the inspectors found at Liverpool prison were unacceptable. Effective measures should have been taken to deal with the issues at a much earlier stage. A full review of all cell accommodation is under way. A programme of window replacement has been approved and in the region of £100,000 worth of toilets and sinks have been ordered for installation. The governor, deputy governor and the director of health services of Liverpool prison have been replaced. We are taking steps to address the situation, but I do not seek to suggest that it should not have been done earlier.

Prisons and Youth Custody Centres: Safety

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged again to the noble Lord, Lord Marks. Complacency is not a badge that can properly be applied to the Government with regard to the issue of prisons and the prison estate.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

Or to the coalition Government.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

This matter has not arrived overnight or over the past two years—in a sense, this has been a long time coming. We have seen an increase in the prison estate from 40,000 or so about 15 years ago to about 85,000 today. Again, that did not happen overnight. It reflects a number of different changes in policy, including changes in sentencing policy. But looking to what we are doing today, we are already committed to and involved in an expenditure of £1.3 billion on the prison estate. We have already opened and are developing the prison at Berwyn to provide a total of 2,100 new places. We are addressing the issue of staff shortages. We have already committed to bringing forward 2,500 further staff by 2018 and, as I noted earlier, in the last quarter, the net increase in prison officers has exceeded 500. Complacency is not a badge. Reaction and response to these difficulties are the mark of what the Government have been doing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are not bringing forward 2,500 inexperienced prison officers; we are bringing forward properly trained prison officers to fill 2,500 places. We did not wilfully remove 7,500 prison officers; we closed 18 prisons and, in conjunction with that, there was a material decrease in the number of prison officers. Of course, we are committed to the idea of healthy prisons that can have a positive effect on the rehabilitation of inmates. With regard to the prisons Bill, I just make this observation: we are still committed to the provisions of the White Paper set out by the Government, many of which can be implemented without the need for primary legislation.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, when will the Government admit that the state has effectively lost control of many of our penal institutions, with violence against staff and prisoners at a totally unacceptable level and getting worse? Is not the only solution in the short term to call in military support to restore proper control, as I have urged before?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We do not agree that it is appropriate or indeed necessary to have regard to military intervention in the civilian prison system. That would be a wholly unprecedented step that would not be welcomed, I suspect, in any quarter. In September last year, we rolled out a new test for psychoactive substances across the entire prison estate. I mention that because the presence of psychoactive substances within the prison estate is a major cause of violent behaviour, bullying, intimidation and further difficulties with staff. We have now invested £2 million to equip every prison across the estate with hand-held mobile phone detectors because, again, the presence of mobile phones is connected to the presence within the prison estate of drugs and other psychoactive substances. In addition to reducing the number of mobile phones within prisons, we have taken steps to reduce the quantities of drugs there. In 2016, prison staff recovered about 225 kilograms of illicit drugs across the prison estate. By taking these steps, we can effectively seek to reduce the level of violence between prisoners and towards staff.

Serious Disturbance at HM Prison Birmingham

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble and learned Lord. We are of course conscious of the demands placed upon the prison estate and prison staff at a time of change. It will be demanding as we go forward with the development of the new prison estate. Clearly overcrowding, not on its own but as part of that terrible mix of issues, can lead to difficulty, danger and violence in our prisons. That is why we are concerned to address the issue of overcrowding as swiftly as we possibly can.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, when the Minister made his last Statement I asked him how bad things have to become in our prisons before we look to the Armed Forces to help. Given the seriousness of the current situation and how critical it is, should we now consider the use in some shape or form of either elements of the Reserve Forces or recently retired members of the Armed Forces or police to help in manning the situation in our prisons? If we lock prisoners up for 23 hours a day and treat them like animals, it is no wonder if we get the sort of situation that tragically happened in the last 48 hours.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is no requirement at this time to call upon outside bodies to assist with the maintenance of order within our prisons. That has been dealt with not only by prison staff in general but by the specialist Tornado groups that were called in and resolved the issue at Birmingham. However, in this context, as part of our recruitment programme we are looking to recruit former members of the Armed Forces who have particular training, service and expertise in areas that can come to bear upon the control of prison populations.

Prison Officers’ Association: Protest Action

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I cannot say how many prisons have writers in residence, but I would suggest that the problems within our prisons at the present time go rather deeper than occupational therapy in the form of writing. However, I will write to my noble friend with the details she requests.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, how bad do things have to get in the short term before we call on military support?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is no question or suggestion of such a thing. In this context, I make clear there is a national response team organisation to deal with unrest in our prisons. For example, the recent incident at Bedford was resolved when the national response team moved into the prison.

Prisons: Violence

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Lord Lee of Trafford

Tuesday 8th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We must always aim to stop self-harm, suicide and disorder in our prisons. The number of prison officers has reduced since 2010 due to the closure of some old prisons which gave poor value for money, delivering the savings under the 2010 spending review and bringing staff numbers into line with benchmark standards. Of course, we have now reviewed those benchmark standards, which is why we are determined to introduce an additional 2,500 staff. Furthermore, we are addressing the issue of recruitment and retention of staff.

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

My Lords, our prisons are a national embarrassment and a disgrace. Many former Ministers should hang their heads in shame. Timpson, the retail chain, is an exemplar in employing ex-offenders: 10% of its 4,500 employees are ex-offenders and it runs seven prison training academies. What are the Government doing to encourage more employers to adopt Timpson’s commendable positive approach?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We are making very real efforts to ensure that not only the employer mentioned but many others engage in providing work within our prisons. This programme is extending all the time. There are demands and limitations because of the geography and nature of our prison establishment but we are investing £1.3 billion in the prison estate to make work opportunities more available.