Courts and Tribunals (Online Procedure) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 10th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I hear what the noble and learned Lord has said and I will take account of those observations in going forward to the next stage of the Bill. However, at present it is not my intention to accept any of the amendments so far laid in respect of this matter. If there is a way through by which we can underline the right of a party to make an application on paper to the relevant online procedure once it is up and running, that would essentially achieve the objective that we have and I believe the House has. However, I do not accept that it will be achieved by means of the present amendments.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

The Minister will know that in a recent Constitution Committee meeting we discussed the Bill with him at length. If there is to be no indication in the Bill that there is a possibility of making a paper application to the court, what advice or direction will be given to this Committee to make it plain that there will be that advice? We know that a significant proportion of the population of this country might be able to use email but cannot use on online form.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We intend to appoint a committee of experts to formulate these rules, including judicial members. They will have regard to the need for access to justice. Certainly, we have confidence in the ability of such a committee to formulate rules that reflect the need for all members of the community to have access, not only those who are perhaps more digitally alert and astute than the minority. We lay our confidence in the fact that there will be such a committee, that it will make regulations and that it will do it under the aegis of not only the Executive but the judiciary, and the Lord Chief Justice in particular.

Family Courts: Domestic Violence

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 21st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the Government are concerned to ensure full access to justice, particularly in such delicate cases as those involving children and domestic abuse. The draft domestic abuse Bill was subject to pre-legislative scrutiny this morning and will come before the House in the foreseeable future.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, Women’s Aid published research last year showing very harmful gender-stereotypical attitudes to women survivors of domestic abuse and their children in our family courts. Does the Minister think that there is a connection between that and the fact that the Government’s gender strategy shows that 60% of the women in our prisons are victims of domestic violence?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not able to identify the link that the noble Baroness refers to. We have full confidence in our family courts system and in the ability of our circuit and district judges to discharge their functions objectively and without regard to issues of gender. In order to do that in cases of the kind that we have discussed, they will always be guided by the requirement for the interests of the child to be paramount.

Prisoners: Acquired Brain Injuries

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Clearly, we are reviewing this matter with a degree of urgency, and to that extent I add my voice. There is an issue about the extent to which we can apply particular test criteria in the context of prisoners. These cannot be over-complex because of the nature of the people we are dealing with, so this has to be a matter for further consideration. However, we are looking not just at those already in prison but those who come into contact with the criminal justice system. It is equally important that they, too, should, where possible, be assessed for the sort of vulnerabilities referred to by the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, as I understand this survey, 62% of the women reported that their brain injury was sustained as a result of domestic violence, so these women are not only domestic violence survivors, they are brain-damaged and are locked up for ridiculously short periods. Does that not beg the question of whether they should be there at all?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I cannot say that it begs the question of whether they should be there at all, given that the nature of their offences may vary quite widely. But clearly, the findings of the Disabilities Trust are extremely disturbing and give cause for concern. That is why we have made them the subject of a review.

Prisons: Women

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are of course concerned to address short custodial sentences and the viability of moving towards community-based sentences. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, for acknowledging that this is a move in the right direction. I should perhaps clarify that the £5 million that has been referred to will be used for our work with partners in the community for community-based resolution for women. In addition, we are providing for a women’s centres pilot which will involve five residential women’s centres, but that budget is distinct from the £5 million. I hope I have made that clear. I cannot give a precise timescale for the rolling out of that pilot, but we do have it in course.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the fact that the Government have abandoned their prison building programme in favour of women’s community centres. That is certainly better than anything that happened under the coalition. However, I point out to the Minister that in 2017 one-quarter of the women sentenced to prison were serving sentences of less than one month, and 217 women were sentenced to less than two weeks. What action are the Government going to take to stop magistrates imposing these ludicrous sentences?

Privately Financed Prisons

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I thank the most reverend Primate for his question. Competition for custodial services in England and Wales is well established and has been in place since the early 1990s. On the funding of new prison facilities, there are now 14 privately operated prisons in England and Wales. Some of them have been funded by PFI, but not all. We consider that the mix of public and private financing has worked and does work.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to place on record my thanks to the Lord Chancellor and the Secretary of State for giving me a private briefing yesterday on what he proposes for the women’s prison estate. His announcement that there will be five women’s centres rather than five women’s prisons was very welcome. Will the Minister confirm that these, too, are to be privately run—and, if so, whether they could be run by charitable or not-for-profit organisations?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are committed to working with local and national partners to develop the residential women’s centres pilot on at least five sites, as indicated by my right honourable friend the Lord Chancellor. I understand that these residential women’s centres pilots will be publicly funded.

Sexual Offences Legislation

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not going to comment on the particulars of an individual case. However, police guidance is clear that the name of a suspect should not be released before they are charged. The naming of people who have been charged with a sexual offence is consistent with the principle of open justice.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, I draw the Minister’s attention to an item in today’s Times, which states:

“Google is helping its users to uncover the identity of rape victims whose anonymity is protected by law”.


What action will or could the Government take?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Again, I am not in a position to say what action the Government will take with regard to such a matter, but clearly such conduct could potentially be regarded as a contempt of court.

Probation: Voluntary Sector

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 24th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, with regard to the present provision it should be noted that the community rehabilitation companies have reduced the number of people reoffending. Indeed, our reforms mean that they are monitoring 40,000 offenders who had previously been released with no supervision.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that one of the reasons why it is very difficult to know what is going on in the community rehabilitation companies is that, under the Grayling legislation, as it was previously referred to, they are specifically excluded from the Freedom of Information Act?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I do not consider that a material consideration, given that they are subject to the very report that we are discussing presently, Dame Stacey’s report of 17 April.

Prisons

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Clearly, the matter of female offenders is one of the priorities that we are addressing. Indeed, we can note that the number of female offenders has dropped to the point where it is now in the region of 3,936 out of a total population of about 86,000. We are of course concerned with ensuring that there is funding in respect of female prisoners and offenders as they leave the prison system.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, the numbers to which the noble and learned Lord refers have recently gone up. It is 12 years since I was requested by the previous Government to conduct a review of deaths of women in the criminal justice system, because of some very high numbers in the previous two years, and the numbers subsequently plummeted considerably. But, last year, we had exactly the same high shocking numbers of women who took their own lives in prison. Why?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, any death in custody is a tragedy. What I can say is that, in the period of 12 months to September 2017, the number of self-inflicted deaths in the prison system dropped by about 30%.

Prisons: Action Plans and Special Measures

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the conditions the inspectors found at Liverpool prison were unacceptable. Effective measures should have been taken to deal with the issues at a much earlier stage. A full review of all cell accommodation is under way. A programme of window replacement has been approved and in the region of £100,000 worth of toilets and sinks have been ordered for installation. The governor, deputy governor and the director of health services of Liverpool prison have been replaced. We are taking steps to address the situation, but I do not seek to suggest that it should not have been done earlier.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, during the coalition and up to 2016, 7,000 full-time prison officer posts were abolished. As a result of my freedom of information request, the Government have revealed that the cost of riots since then—due, no doubt, to inadequate staffing—runs to £9,363,964. The contract was with Carillion. Would it not have been better to have kept those prison staff on?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are halfway to the target of recruiting 2,500 extra prison officers. Reference is made to the past. We, as a Government, learn from the past but we plan for the future.

Prisons: Safety and Security

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Wednesday 21st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we have already made an appropriate appointment for the carrying out of a full investigation of the incident at Birmingham prison, and that investigation is now proceeding. I pause to allude back to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Beith, a few moments ago. He also asked about the reserve list of prison officers. That is maintained and relied upon. I apologise for omitting that from my previous answer.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the fact that these difficulties in our prisons have been building up for, he said, many years. As someone who has been interested in penal policy for at least 20 years, I disagree vehemently. This current problem about riots and no access to education in prisons is a direct result of the fact that under Chris Grayling as Secretary of State we had a 30% cut in the prison staff population. How on earth we expect that reduced staffing level to deal with all the problems that are being discussed today is beyond me.

Prisons: Violence

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 8th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

On strategy, the Government have already indicated in the White Paper their determination to devolve greater responsibility to individual governors for their particular establishments. I do not have the figures for tenure of governors, however, and I undertake to write to my noble friend about that.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that under the coalition there were 30% staffing cuts in the Prison Service? We lost 7,000 full-time posts. The Government now propose to recruit 2,500 apparently to cover that gap, mindful of the fact that the salary for somebody in the London area is less that £21,000. Will he acknowledge that it will be impossible for those 2,500 extra people to make good the numbers so as to stop self-harm, suicide and disorder?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We must always aim to stop self-harm, suicide and disorder in our prisons. The number of prison officers has reduced since 2010 due to the closure of some old prisons which gave poor value for money, delivering the savings under the 2010 spending review and bringing staff numbers into line with benchmark standards. Of course, we have now reviewed those benchmark standards, which is why we are determined to introduce an additional 2,500 staff. Furthermore, we are addressing the issue of recruitment and retention of staff.

Imprisonment for Public Protection Sentences

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. The significant majority of IPP prisoners will actually never reach the point of serving more than the statutory maximum penalty because the very large majority have already been sentenced to life imprisonment.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

The Minister referred to a number of prisoners who qualified for release. How many of them have been released?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

In the past year, 512 have been released into open conditions.

National Identity Cards

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Corston

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

As may be appreciated, the position of the Government is that they would not contemplate introducing identity cards at present. If they believed that their introduction would bring a material increase in security, their position would of course change.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

Will the Minister be surprised to hear that when I was a Member in the other place, I held a consultation and conference on identity cards in my constituency? One of the responses that most surprised people was from married women—most but not all from minority ethnic communities—who said that they had no access to their passports, that they did not have a bank card or a savings account and that they could not prove who they were. Indeed, some of them said that when they had become victims of domestic violence and had gone to Bristol City Council, they were told that they could not be rehoused because they could not prove who they were. They said to me: “If you allow me to have an identity card, I would be someone”. Have the Government thought about those issues?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

It is tragic to hear of victims of such intimidation and control, but I would observe that those who are the subject of such control are not likely to have access to their identity card any more than they do to their passport.