Royal Commission on Criminal Justice

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The criminal justice system faces challenges, which is why this royal commission is so important.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, will the royal commission membership include judges, barristers and solicitors?

Crime: Support for Children and Young People

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Wednesday 5th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we fully understand the need to support young people and children who are not only the victims of crime but are traumatised by witnessing it. The noble Baroness made particular reference to cases of domestic abuse. Further to the Victims Strategy, we have increased funding to support children who are witnesses of domestic abuse, and we are taking further steps in the context of our Victims Strategy to address these issues. Over and above that, we have the Keeping Children Safe in Education statutory guidance, which applies to all schools and colleges.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister recognise the importance of a priority for children who have been victims of human trafficking, including children who are victims of county lines?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Clearly, we are conscious of the increasing prevalence of cases where children have been the subject of trafficking. They have particular and special needs, and we are conscious of the need to address those.

Prisons: Women

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. There is an issue of an ageing prison population, and that is addressed in our management provision for prisoners in custody.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I do not know whether the Minister is aware that although there are guidelines, they do not seem to be getting through to a number of judges. I have been told anecdotally of judges who do not know about the community centres for women.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not aware of the noble and learned Baroness’s source of information in that regard, but clearly, we need to ensure that these guidelines are properly understood at every level of the judiciary.

Grandparents: Legal Rights

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Thursday 10th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, with some family experience, I am concerned that a Minister of Her Majesty’s Government was talking about presumptions for grandparents to have contact with their grandchildren. I would hope that that would not go any further, because presumptions are highly undesirable in the law, but it would be useful to review whether grandparents are finding it unusually difficult to get access to the court when they wish to be in touch with their grandchildren.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, with regard to access to the courts, the number of applications for child arrangement orders has generally been in the region of 2,000 over the period since 2011. They have varied slightly, and the number of applications has increased steadily from 2015 to the current year, where the figure is in excess of 2,000. I have certainly not referred to presumption, and various issues would of course arise if we were to consider such a move because, if you contemplate a presumption in favour of grandparents, you are in a sense intruding on the rights of the parent.

Legal Aid

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Thursday 19th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, with particular reference to housing, at present 133 of the 134 housing and debt procurement areas for legal aid have provision, and in addition there is provision for telephone advice in the context of housing issues that are covered by LASPO. Our review will embrace all the issues that are being raised by interested groups and will take account of the observations made by the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Lord, Lord Bach, in their respective reports.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, when the Government inquiry takes place, will it please look at the situation of the criminal Bar, which is currently in very real trouble? The noble Baroness made an important point about the very good advocacy of the criminal Bar. It is under real threat and is an issue which the Government have to look at.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We are conscious of the contribution that the criminal Bar makes. The noble and learned Baroness is alluding to developments with regard to recent changes to the advocates’ graduated fee scheme. That scheme was developed in conjunction with the profession, in particular the Bar Council. The changes are intended to create a simpler and more modern pay system which better reflects the reality of the work being done. As regards the question of an inquiry, a review by the Lord Chancellor is ongoing and we intend to report on it in the course of this year.

Probation Service

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Thursday 14th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, responsibilities have not been farmed out. Contracts have been entered into and they are properly supervised.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

Is the noble and learned Lord really saying that the Government are satisfied with a telephone form of probation, because I do not believe anybody in this House is?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are not satisfied with the telephone form of probation but, as I said, contact with offenders has to be proportionate to the risk they present.

Prison Officers’ Association: Protest Action

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is no question or suggestion of such a thing. In this context, I make clear there is a national response team organisation to deal with unrest in our prisons. For example, the recent incident at Bedford was resolved when the national response team moved into the prison.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister consider a radical approach towards those offenders with mental health issues, with the possibility of probation with a requirement for residential care? That would remove a great many people from the prisons and allow them to be treated, with some ability to be rehabilitated.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The Government are of course always open to any suggestion that might improve the situation in our prisons. I take on board the observations of the noble and learned Baroness.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The Government acted quickly to change the evidence arrangements in respect of domestic violence cases following a decision in February of this year, and the take-up on these cases has increased by about 30% since that time. With regard to exceptional case funding, again the number of applications and grants has increased markedly in the past year and indeed, according to the data available for the last quarter of 2015-16, the number of grants in respect of exceptional case funding has increased by 32%.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, whereas in the past most of the litigants in person in the cases I tried over many years were men, who chose not to have legal aid, now they are both parties? Therefore, neither party has legal aid and the judge has no knowledge of what is the issue between them that can be properly litigated for the best interests of the child. This is a serious matter, which also leads to enormous delays and overuse of Cafcass.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

With particular reference to proceedings concerning children, I point out that legal aid remains available where most needed. Indeed, legal aid was provided for in over 54,000 proceedings last year under the special Children Act.

Modern Slavery (Transparency in Supply Chains) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Friday 8th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, raised a number of issues. One of them was how we identify those corporate entities or partnerships that have an obligation under Section 54. The obligation was designed to coincide with the definition of large companies under the Companies Act in the context of registration. I am not saying that that takes us very much further forward, but there is at least a litmus test that one can have regard to in that context. I do not seek to ignore the other points that she raised, but I hope I have covered them in the course of this reply.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about public bodies. Again, if I may, I repeat that they are subject to a parallel provision—albeit not identical, for obvious reasons—and that is being developed under reference to the code that I mentioned before.

In conclusion, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Young, for raising this important topic. The Government have listened and reflected carefully on the topics raised by her Bill. We are determined to lead by example on this issue and do everything that we can to prevent modern slavery in both the public and private sector supply chains in this country, and indeed overseas. While the Government are not persuaded that further legislation is the right approach at this stage, we welcome the ideas in the Bill. We will want to examine some of them in more detail and, as I have said before, I will be happy to meet with the noble Baroness again to do so.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

Before the Minister sits down, may I ask two questions? First, as I understand it, it is being suggested that in the public sector the human rights requirement meets what is needed for modern slavery. If that is correct, why on earth was it necessary to have a modern slavery requirement for the private sector? Secondly, it is all very well for the Secretary of State to have the power to go to the County Court, but what he needs to know is, first, who the companies are and, secondly, whether they have in fact not complied. From what the Minister has said, I do not understand at the moment how the Government are going to find either of those points.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

On the first point, the private sector is not subject to Section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998, which is what I sought to explain earlier. On the second point—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

The independent private companies are also caught by the Human Rights Act under the current legislation because they have to do a human rights report every year. I do not quite understand why the Government think that that is good enough for the Government but not for private companies.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

As I say, the public sector is subject to Section 6 of the Human Rights Act; that was merely one aspect of my explanation as to why it was not considered appropriate to extend this legislation to the public sector. The other issues concern the Public Contracts Regulations 2015 and the codes and guidance that apply in that context.

As regards the Secretary of State having resort to the courts to bring a penalty, we will see consumers, NGOs and peer pressure bringing out the question of who is complying and who is not. I will give one simple example. If a retailer on the high street discovers that their competitor is retailing T-shirts at 50p each when they know perfectly well that they cannot be produced for anything like that sum, and they persist in doing so, they will detect that something is amiss. As the large corporate retailers observed in the consultation period, they want a level playing field and their one way of doing that is to ensure that their competitors comply with Section 54 and, if they do not, to bring that to the attention of the Secretary of State.

Modern Slavery Act 2015 (Code of Practice) Regulations 2016

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Grand Committee

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to the draft Modern Slavery Act 2015 (Code of Practice) Regulations 2016, which were laid before this House on 14 March.

The Modern Slavery Act 2015 includes important maritime enforcement powers for constables and enforcement officers to use when investigating modern slavery offences committed at sea. These provisions will give law enforcement officers at sea similar powers of enforcement to those available to enforcement officers in relation to drug traffickers. In summary, these are: the power to stop, board, divert and detain a vessel; the power to search a vessel and obtain information; and the power to arrest and to seize any relevant evidence.

The Modern Slavery Act enables law enforcement officers to use these powers in relation to certain ships in international waters, as well as UK territorial waters. It will also allow law enforcement officers in hot pursuit of ships to exercise their powers throughout UK territorial waters, so that they have the powers they need to catch the perpetrators of these terrible crimes. These powers are important because victims can be trafficked on vessels or subject to terrible abuse and forced labour while at sea. If law enforcement officers have to wait for vessels to return to UK territorial waters or to a UK port before they can take action, this can expose victims to extended periods of abuse and risk to life.

Before these new powers are brought into force, Schedule 2 to the Act requires that a code of practice is put in place for England and Wales for English and Welsh enforcement officers to follow when arresting a person under these powers. The Government have now prepared this code of practice, which was laid before the House on 14 March 2016 with the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (Code of Practice) Regulations 2016 and debated on 18 April in the House of Commons. These regulations are necessary to ensure that the code of practice will be in operation at the same time that the maritime powers in the Act are commenced.

The code provides guidance as to the information that should be given to a suspect at the time of their arrest. The code makes clear that suspects should be provided with a summary of their rights and warned if it may take more than 24 hours to bring them to a police station. The code will ensure that law enforcement officers take into account the particular needs of suspects and vulnerable suspects during detention periods. This includes ensuring that those detained understand what is being said to them and making arrangements to safeguard their health and welfare.

To ensure that the code will be practical and effective, the Government have consulted the law enforcement agencies that will use this code, representatives of the legal profession, the devolved Administrations, other external organisations and interested government departments. The Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive have also drafted equivalent guidance or codes of practice for their law enforcement officers, and we have worked closely with them to ensure the codes are appropriately aligned.

The maritime powers in the Modern Slavery Act are essential if we are to ensure that our law enforcement officers can properly pursue the perpetrators of these terrible crimes. It is vital that these powers are used properly, particularly the power of arrest. That is why this code of practice and these regulations are so important, and I commend them to the Committee.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I think the code of practice is absolutely excellent and I have no comment on it, other than to praise it. I am absolutely delighted that the Modern Slavery Act includes these powers on ships.

I hope the Minister will forgive me for raising an issue that is not strictly on board ship. I remain, with others, very concerned about smaller ports. I have two questions, but I do not necessarily expect the Minister to be able to answer them today. First, what are the powers and code of practice in relation to ports in England and Wales, particularly the smaller ports that have regular ferry services but are not in the larger group? Secondly, the particular port I have in mind, which those of us concerned with modern slavery are especially worried about, is Holyhead. Holyhead does not appear to have a very good organisation at the moment for checking those who are coming through, who may in fact be being brought in for forced labour or sexual or other exploitation. Perhaps I could be told at some stage what is going to be done, or is already being done, about the smaller ports, with a really close look at what is happening in Holyhead.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his explanation of the purpose and effect of this order, which brings into force a code of practice to be followed by constables and enforcement officers when arresting a person under the maritime enforcement powers set out in the Modern Slavery Act 2015. Without the powers in the 2015 Act, law enforcement authorities are not in a position effectively to police modern slavery offences that take place in international waters, and do not have the power to stop or divert vessels in UK territorial waters.

Human trafficking and modern slavery do not occur only outside the United Kingdom. The National Crime Agency has reported that last year 3,266 people, of whom 928 were children, were identified as potential victims of trafficking in the United Kingdom, with that first figure being a 40% increase on the number of potential victims in 2014. The United Kingdom is predominantly a destination country for victims of trafficking but it is also a source and transit country. Last year, potential victims of trafficking found here were reported to be from 102 different countries of origin.

Of course, our police and border forces need to have the most effective means available to pursue, disrupt and bring to justice those engaged in human trafficking. The code covers arrest and obtaining information. Is that power restricted to the ship or vessel on which it is suspected that slavery or human trafficking is taking place, or does it cover any wider geographical area or port facilities used, or about to be used, by the ship, or other vessels supplying or servicing the ship?

The Explanatory Memorandum states that the Government are,

“working with the Scottish Government and Northern Irish Executive with a view to commencing the maritime powers in Parts 2 and 3 of Schedule 2 simultaneously across the United Kingdom on 31 May 2016”.

I am not sure whether the Minister said that that objective had now been achieved or it is still to be achieved. If it is the latter, what would the consequences be if it was not achieved by 31 May 2016?

The Explanatory Memorandum refers to consultation that has taken place on the draft code of practice and states that, in response to comments made,

“the Code was amended to improve provisions for record keeping by constables and enforcement officers, and enhance the information to be provided to arrested persons on the period of time likely to be spent in transit to a police station or other authorised place of detention”.

Were any other suggestions or requests made in the consultation in relation to the code of practice that were not taken on board by the Government? If so, what did they cover?

Finally, were any issues raised by the Independent Anti-slavery Commissioner about the code of practice, and is he satisfied with the wording of the code and its consistency, for example, with other relevant codes of practice?

Modern Slavery Act 2015

Debate between Lord Keen of Elie and Baroness Butler-Sloss

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There never was an intention to establish any central monitoring system with respect to these provisions. The idea was that there should be far more carrot than stick, and that peer pressure should be brought to bear on companies in order that they address their responsibilities. This was not intended to be some sort of tick-box mechanism whereby they simply put a form into a central repository. However, every company or organisation will be required to have a prominent place on their website to which members of the public may go to establish that the statement required by Part 6 has been made.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

What progress is being made towards having a national website on which every business that has to have this message can put it?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is at present no intention that there should be such a national website.