Data Protection Bill [HL] Debate
Full Debate: Read Full DebateLord Keen of Elie
Main Page: Lord Keen of Elie (Conservative - Life peer)Department Debates - View all Lord Keen of Elie's debates with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport
(6 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, the amendments in this group concern the regulation of the press and the processing of personal data for the purposes of journalism. First I will address Clauses 142, 168 and 169, which were added to the Bill by this House without the support of the Government, and which the Commons amendments now seek to remove. These clauses, and the issues they pertain to, have been subject to a great deal of passionate debate in both this place and the other. Since we previously discussed the Bill in this House, the Government have also published their response to the consultation on Section 40 and the future of the Leveson inquiry, to which these amendments relate, and have outlined their position in detail on these matters.
The Bill is about data protection and, as previously observed by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, during our last debate, it is therefore not the right forum for a debate on press regulation in the future. I hope to demonstrate that, even if it were, these clauses are simply not the solution to the problems faced by the press today to ensure that it is free, fair and sustainable.
Commons Amendments 106, 107 and 141 would remove Clauses 168 and 169, which were added to the Bill by this House. As they stand, these clauses would essentially introduce the provisions contained in Sections 40 and 42 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013, although they would apply only to breaches of data protection law. They would mean that any publication not regulated by Impress would be at risk of having to pay the legal costs for any complaint against them, whether they won or lost.
As I have already said, since we previously discussed the Bill in this House, the Government have published their response to the consultation on the future of Section 40. By way of update, then, I can tell the House that some 79% of direct responses favoured full repeal of Section 40, compared to just 7% which favoured full commencement. Many respondents cited concerns about the “chilling effect” that Section 40 would have on the freedom of the press. Andrew Norfolk, who uncovered the Rotherham child abuse scandal, has said that Section 40 would have made it “near impossible” to do his job. These clauses would also impose further financial burdens on already struggling local and national publishers, with 200 local newspapers having closed since 2005.
I recognise, however, that the primary motivation behind this House originally inserting these clauses was to ensure that victims of press intrusion would have access to adequate redress. I can reassure your Lordships that enormous progress has been made on this front—some of it since the Bill left this House—making these cost provisions no longer necessary or proportionate.
In 2014, the old Press Complaints Commission was replaced by the Independent Press Standards Organisation. IPSO follows many of the principles set out in Sir Brian’s report and is fundamentally different to the PCC. It has a legally binding contract with the publications it regulates, which means that, if a publication fails to comply with IPSO’s orders, such as publishing a front page correction, it can face court action.
Earlier this month, IPSO announced that it would create a compulsory low-cost arbitration scheme under which claims can be made for as little as £50, and all the major national newspapers that are IPSO members have signed up to it. This means that someone who has been wronged by a newspaper can, for the first time, ask for arbitration of their claim—and the newspaper cannot refuse. With the introduction of this scheme, IPSO has met one of the most important recommendations of the Leveson report and has ensured that ordinary people have a fair legal remedy that is quick and inexpensive. As Opposition noble Lords have previously acknowledged, once IPSO has met the majority of the standards for recognition established by the Press Recognition Panel, it is sensible to look afresh at this complex set of interrelated measures of inducements and penalties. Now is that time.
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, for setting out the thinking behind her Amendments 62A and 62B. As we have heard, they seek to insert an amended version of Clause 142 into the Bill, in contrast to the Commons amendments, which would remove it. I have already set out the Government’s reasons for opposing the inclusion of Clause 142 in this Bill, and I regret to say that the modest changes proposed by Amendments 62A and 62B do not change that analysis. In particular, nothing in the amendments answers the fundamental challenge that creating a further public inquiry is neither necessary nor proportionate at this point in time.
I remind noble Lords that it was this present Government, following a public consultation and in implementing a manifesto commitment, who took the present step, which was approved in the other place. My noble friend Lord Cormack alluded to the fact that the other place had already addressed this issue. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, came back with an accusation directed against my noble friend Lord Cormack of complacency. I have seen my noble friend accused of many things, but complacency is certainly not one of them. I regard that accusation as utterly misplaced and inappropriate.
Indeed, I take issue with some of the other factual assertions made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, in particular his assertion that no front-page apology had appeared in any IPSO publication since it was founded. I think he will find that may be borne out upon a reading of the Times in the recent past.
My statement was that no front-page apology of equal prominence has been made mandated. Am I wrong about that?
I do not believe that the noble and learned Lord chose his words very carefully previously. As I understand it, IPSO did mandate a front-page apology in the Times.
All things are relative.
I appreciate that a great deal of passion has been exhibited, and indeed the noble Lord, Lord McNally, talked about a passionate and balanced debate; it has been both. It has certainly been balanced when we consider the contributions made on all sides of the House. However, I would seek to touch on one or two points that have been raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, raised the question of Northern Ireland. To clarify in respect of that matter, the commitment made last week did not relate to the Cairncross review; it related to the review that would be carried out pursuant to Commons Amendment 109, in particular paragraph 4 which refers to a review that will take into account all parts of the United Kingdom and will ensure that there is an independent named reviewer for Northern Ireland. I hope that that covers the point.
My noble friend Lord Attlee raised certain issues with regard to VAT. He is right about VAT on e-publications, which are classified as electronic services. EU VAT law specifically excludes such services from the reduced rate of VAT. Further consideration of that matter is beyond my pay grade and is one for Her Majesty’s Treasury in due course, so I shall not elaborate upon that. As regards the repeal of Section 40, the Government are committed to doing that at an appropriate time on the basis of appropriate legislation, so the noble Lord, Lord McNally, can anticipate that coming forward in due course.
I shall move on to certain points that were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Prescott. On the royal charter, the Press Recognition Panel, which was set up by the charter, remains a feature of our regulatory landscape so there is no need to intrude upon the charter or to consult further on it at the present time. On his reference to the Sunday Times and the allegations regarding John Ford, that was a matter of self-incrimination as far as I can see in respect of criminal acts that took place before 2011; they are not recent events. On the position regarding Ireland, the press may sign up to the Press Council of Ireland, but they are not obliged to do so, in order to secure the benefits of being members of that council. They may approach that by a different regulatory regime, provided that it has suitable terms, so I do not consider that we can go immediately to that.
Reference was made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, to the Manchester Arena review. I appreciate his direct involvement in that, and of course we recognise that for the victims and their families, dealing with the media at such a time can be very distressing. In fact, the Government have recently published guidance for victims and their families on handling media attention in the aftermath of similar events, but diverse reports with regard to the media have come out of that. As the noble Lord observed, only one complaint was made to IPSO regarding the conduct of the regulated media at Manchester, and on 24 April 2018 at a meeting of the National Police Chiefs’ Council on media engagement, the senior press officer at Greater Manchester Police observed that after the Manchester Arena bombing, the media had been exceptional and had treated everyone involved with the utmost respect. In her view, the only qualification was in respect of certain international outlets and social media which had caused families problems. There are clearly diverse views—
I want to put a question to the Minister. Does he not accept that families experiencing this level of trauma and distress are simply not in a position to make formal complaints to IPSO? It is a failed and incorrect test of the extent of the issue.
With respect, that is not the test. Of course, families in this situation are placed in a very difficult position and we recognise that. I do not know if the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, had an opportunity in the course of preparing his report to actually interview the senior press officer at Greater Manchester Police, although he will be aware of the view she has expressed with regard to the media’s behaviour, but he did not mention that in his earlier speech to the House. There are diverse views and interpretations of what was happening at the time.
Does the Minister believe that the reputation of Parliament is enhanced or diminished by the refutation of the commitment made by the former Prime Minister?
It is neither. It is a situation in which we have moved on and, as I say, the Government have, following a public consultation, implemented a manifesto commitment. It is in those circumstances that we are proceeding.